mmarshall

In truly icy and treacherous conditions, even electronic traction-aids often won't save you. And it shows you how critically important it is to keep one's speed down on slippery roads. Here is a scene in Montreal, on an inclined city street that had not been treated with anti-icing elements. Cars, buses, cops.....even snow-plows LOL were spinning out of control and running into each other, even at speeds of 5-10 MPH and below.

Most Canadian drivers, of course, are probably used to slick winter conditions (or quickly become accustomed to them)...but this one seems to be bad even by Canadian standards. Here in the D.C. area, of course, with our huge immigrant population, unlike Canada, many drivers come from tropical countries and have little or no idea how to drive in snow. A lousy inch on the roads, even if plowed, can snarl and paralyze everything.

Aron9000

Not to armchair quarter back that mess, but all of those idiots were standing on the brake, had all the wheels locked, and were completely out of control. Standing on the brake is the last thing you want to do in that situation. There is no way in hell you are going to stop going down that slope, that guy in the F150 could've steered around the stopped bus if he had stayed off the brake. One reason I like driving a manual transmission in winter weather is situations like that, you'll see that slope looks slippery as snot, so you put the car in first and creep down it, engine braking will hold your speed back. Granted you can do the same thing with an automatic, shift to 1 or 2 on a slippery hill like that and use the engine as a brake, but its not as intuative, as those idiots sliding down the hill with their car in drive and standing on the brake can attest to.

mikersoft

iTrader: (1)

It needs a soundtrack... Before watching, start this music:
-Mike

mmarshall

You have to remember, though, how anti-lock brakes work....and most vehicles have them nowadays. If they are functioning correctly, no matter how hard you stomp on the brake pedal, or how long you hold the pedal down, the computer will continually apply and release the brake-pressure numerous times, each second, right at the point of impending lock-up. This will keep the wheels turning and the steering system functioning while the vehicle is slowing down. The problem there, In Montreal, that day, was that the ice conditions were so bad that, ABS or not, tires simply didn't have any traction. Electronic traction/braking aids, while certainly useful in many circumstances, can't overrule the laws of physics of there is no traction for the tires to start with.

You'll notice that even the cop couldn't keep control...and cops, by the very nature of their jobs, are well-trained in driving competence.

Unless you are an expert in heel/toe manual downshifts (which most drivers aren't) or if the vehicle has RPM-matching auto-downshifts (which most vehicles don't) sometimes the abrupt change in engine RPM when downshifting can sometimes actually start or contribute to a skid by suddenly changing the amount of torque and pressure going to the drive-wheels, causing them to beak traction. The key to successfully doing almost anything on snow and ice is smoothness....with as little input to the wheels as possible.

JessePS

I am ashamed to be a Montrealer because of this. Most of the blame is on part of the city though and the rest is on the drivers.

I even know don't hold down the brakes, it makes a bad situation even worse. Tap, release, tap, release. Gain enough control to slow down or move out of the way of the obstacle.

mmarshall

Rest-assured, this was not a barb at you, Jesse...or specifically at anyone else from the city. I had no idea you lived in Montreal. But it was in interesting video, and I decided to post it.

Are you familiar with that intersection, BTW? Maybe you can fill us in a little on some of the things about that street that the video wasn't clear on.

If you have a vehicle built in the last 15-20 years or so, there's probably no need to do that. The ABS computer (if it is working properly) will do that automatically for you, many times a second, far quicker than your foot can. When the system is in activation, a light (usually yellow) will illuminate on the dash, and you will feel and sometimes hear the car vibrating and shuddering...that's normal.

(I'm assuming, of course, that Canada required ABS on all newer vehicles like the U.S. does)

JessePS

That intersection is quite steep and it is quite frequently used during the day, because it is one of the quickest ways to get into downtown from that area. I think that was the first time that has ever happened at that intersection too.

bagwell

pretty funny the truck dropping salt/gravel goes uncontrolled into a police car.

Lexura1414

iTrader: (6)

What do immigrants have to do with this? I am tired of politics after this past messy election. Can we isolate this part of the forum to just car/auto/non political issues? Thank you
To get back on topic, I appreciate the posting as we have these crazy icy roads as well in MN. This posting is a reminder..

mmarshall

Not just immigrants...I was refering to all of those who have little or no experience (or knowledge) of how to drive in snow. It was a perfectly legitimate comment. And, if you lived here in the D.C. area and saw how inept many winter drivers in this area are......you would understand why. It has nothing to do with politics....just reality.

Thank You. The Washington Post did a story on it, but the attached video didn't have a separate link. I found the same video on YouTube.


Drivers in your part of the world (unlike D.C) generally know how to handle it. They (usually) do in Montreal, too, but this looked like an exceptionally bad situation, even by Canadian standards. Driving on snow is one thing........driving on virtually glare-ice is something else altogether.

corradoMR2

Ex-Montrealer most of my life. To be honest, not that unusual a scenario. We get lots of days with freezing rain and icy conditions and the salt trucks at times just are not there fast enough. With today's proliferation of cell phone cams, it's no surprise someone was there to catch the action. I'm surprised it wasn't worst considering this is downtown Montreal on Beaver Hall and de la Gauchetiere.

AJT123

Thnks for the video, I enjoyed it. This is exactly how it gets here in Knoxville when it snows, lol. Accidents and danger aside, it's fun because the whole city shuts down.

Regarding the ABS, keep in mind that the ABS disengages during the final 2-3 or so MPH of a stop, which is badly exacerbated in the slick ice. Or, it won't engage at all at crawling speeds. (At least in every car I've experienced--I know so bc I've almost wrecked myself in ice/snow and the wheels locking up is very disconcerting.). This could explain some of the locked wheels.

Toys4RJill

Crazy video. Glad it appears that nobody was hurt. I thought Quebec had mandatory snow tires.

mmarshall

Even the best snow rubber and electronic traction aids have only very limited effectiveness when you have truly bad conditions like black ice or very smooth, untreated, hard-packed snow that essentially IS ice.

Toys4RJill

Poor taste IMO.