Report: Toyota Considers Long-Range Electric Vehicles
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Report: Toyota Considers Long-Range Electric Vehicles
Saw this in Motor Trend and thought it was worth posting. I have no idea if the Nikkei Asian Review is a reliable source or not.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/repor...tric-vehicles/
Toyota wants to take you further and is considering long-range electric vehicles by 2020, according to recent reports.
Automotive News cites the Nikkei Asian Review for the recent EV buzz. Up until now, Toyota’s strategy has been focused on short-range hybrids and funny-looking hydrogen fuel cell vehicles like the Mirai.
The Nikkei also speculates that Toyota wants to start production quickly and is considering an electric SUV with a range of nearly 200 miles for the expanding market.
Friendlier EV rules in the U.S. and China, as well as stiffer competition from Tesla and others, are said to be the root of Toyota’s change in strategy.
The first-generation Prius hybrid made its debut nearly 20 years ago and the nameplate has been a tremendous success for the company. All-electric cars, crossovers, and trucks seem like a logical step for Toyota to stay competitive.
Toyota currently makes hybrid versions of the Avalon, Camry, Highlander, and RAV4. An all-electric version of the Camry or Highlander would make a lot of sense and could hold off the competition for now. Toyota previously sold an all-electric version of the RAV4 using a drivetrain developed by Tesla.
There is no official word from Toyota regarding the report, but we hope to hear more news about it later this month at the Los Angeles auto show.
Automotive News cites the Nikkei Asian Review for the recent EV buzz. Up until now, Toyota’s strategy has been focused on short-range hybrids and funny-looking hydrogen fuel cell vehicles like the Mirai.
The Nikkei also speculates that Toyota wants to start production quickly and is considering an electric SUV with a range of nearly 200 miles for the expanding market.
Friendlier EV rules in the U.S. and China, as well as stiffer competition from Tesla and others, are said to be the root of Toyota’s change in strategy.
The first-generation Prius hybrid made its debut nearly 20 years ago and the nameplate has been a tremendous success for the company. All-electric cars, crossovers, and trucks seem like a logical step for Toyota to stay competitive.
Toyota currently makes hybrid versions of the Avalon, Camry, Highlander, and RAV4. An all-electric version of the Camry or Highlander would make a lot of sense and could hold off the competition for now. Toyota previously sold an all-electric version of the RAV4 using a drivetrain developed by Tesla.
There is no official word from Toyota regarding the report, but we hope to hear more news about it later this month at the Los Angeles auto show.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/repor...tric-vehicles/
#2
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
hopefully the sleeping giant will awake...
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Looks like Toyota has come to their senses. The hybrid cars will not sell if there are electric alternatives from other manufactures that are either a combo of gas or pure electric.
As for hydrogen, I don't see them making much inroads with the Miraj
As for hydrogen, I don't see them making much inroads with the Miraj
#5
Lexus Champion
Toyota has stayed with the nickel metal hydride battery all these years because they found the lithium ion battery to be too expensive and not reliable enough. But the claim is that they have been able to make its new lithium ion batteries cheaper and safer.
Engineers at Toyota Motor Corp say they have tamed volatile lithium-ion battery technology, and can now safely pack more power at no significant extra cost, giving the Japanese automaker the option to enter the growing all-electric car market.
While rivals including Tesla Motors and Nissan Motor Co began adopting lithium-ion battery technology nearly a decade ago, Toyota has largely held back due to concerns over cost, size and safety.
Lithium-ion batteries can be unstable and have been blamed for incendiary Samsung smartphones and smoking [Boeing 787] Dreamliner airplanes.
Having Toyota endorse lithium-ion will be a fillip for the developing technology, and gives the automaker the option to produce for an all-electric passenger car market which it has avoided, preferring to put its heft behind hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles (FCVs).
Toyota says its Prius Prime, a soon-to-be-launched plug-in electric version of the world's top-selling gasoline hybrid, will use lithium-ion batteries, with enough energy to make the car go around 60 kms (37.3 miles) when fully charged before the gasoline engine kicks in. Because of different methodology in measuring a car's electric mode range, the Prime's 60 km range will be listed in the United States as around 25 miles (40.2 kms).
"SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY"
Many lithium-ion car batteries use a chemical combination of nickel, cobalt and manganese. These store more energy, take a shorter time to charge, and are considered safer than other Li-ion technologies.
But they can still overheat and catch fire if not properly designed, manufactured and controlled.
"It's a tall order to develop a lithium-ion car battery which can perform reliably and safely for 10 years, or over hundreds of thousands of kilometers," said Koji Toyoshima, the chief engineer for the Prius.
"We have double braced and triple braced our battery pack to make sure they're fail-safe ... It's all about safety, safety, safety," he told Reuters.
Toyota has mainly used the more mature nickel-metal hydride batteries to power the motor in the conventional Prius, widely regarded as the forefather of the 'green' car, though it did use some lithium-ion batteries from 2009 in its first plug-in hybrid Prius, around the time the first all-electric cars powered by lithium-ion batteries - such as the Tesla Roadster and Nissan Leaf - came on to the mass market.
Toyota's confidence in its battery's safety and stability comes from improved control technology that precisely monitors the temperature and condition of each of the 95 cells in its new battery pack.
"Our control system can identify even slight signs of a potential short-circuit in individual cells, and will either prevent it from spreading or shut down the entire battery," said Hiroaki Takeuchi, a senior Toyota engineer involved in the development.
Working with battery supplier Panasonic Corp - which also produces Li-ion batteries for Tesla - Toyota has also improved the precision in battery cell assembly, ensuring battery chemistry is free of impurities.
The introduction of even microscopic metal particles or other impurities can trigger a short-circuit, overheating and potential explosion.
"The environment where our lithium-ion batteries are produced is not quite like the clean rooms where semiconductors are made, but very close," Takeuchi said.
Battery experts say increasingly sophisticated systems that can track individual cell conditions are becoming closely-held trade secrets.
"State of charge management, safety management and algorithm development is becoming one of the higher tiers of proprietary internal development," said Eric Rask, principal research engineer at Argonne National Laboratory, a U.S. Department of Energy facility outside Chicago.
"It's very internal, very strategic, and companies are seeing management algorithms as a competitive advantage."
FALLING PRICES
Toyota has also been able to shrink the size of each cell, for example, closing the distance between the anode and cathode, where active ions travel when charging and discharging.
This has doubled battery capacity to around 8.8 kilowatt hours, while only increasing the battery pack size by around two-thirds and its weight by a half.
Battery experts say lithium-ion battery cell prices have fallen by about 60 percent in five years to around $145 per kilowatt hour as larger-scale production has made them cheaper to make.
Falling battery prices have enabled Toyota to develop its more compact, efficient battery, while also adding more sophisticated controls into its battery pack, Toyoshima said. Toyota declined to say more on its costs.
While Toyota sees FCVs as the ultimate 'green' car, the United States and China are encouraging automakers to make more all-electric battery cars as they push alternative energy strategies.
"Developing lithium-ion batteries for both hybrids and plug-ins will enable us to also produce all-electric cars in the future," said Toyoshima said. "It makes sense to have a range of batteries to suit different powertrains."
While rivals including Tesla Motors and Nissan Motor Co began adopting lithium-ion battery technology nearly a decade ago, Toyota has largely held back due to concerns over cost, size and safety.
Lithium-ion batteries can be unstable and have been blamed for incendiary Samsung smartphones and smoking [Boeing 787] Dreamliner airplanes.
Having Toyota endorse lithium-ion will be a fillip for the developing technology, and gives the automaker the option to produce for an all-electric passenger car market which it has avoided, preferring to put its heft behind hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles (FCVs).
Toyota says its Prius Prime, a soon-to-be-launched plug-in electric version of the world's top-selling gasoline hybrid, will use lithium-ion batteries, with enough energy to make the car go around 60 kms (37.3 miles) when fully charged before the gasoline engine kicks in. Because of different methodology in measuring a car's electric mode range, the Prime's 60 km range will be listed in the United States as around 25 miles (40.2 kms).
"SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY"
Many lithium-ion car batteries use a chemical combination of nickel, cobalt and manganese. These store more energy, take a shorter time to charge, and are considered safer than other Li-ion technologies.
But they can still overheat and catch fire if not properly designed, manufactured and controlled.
"It's a tall order to develop a lithium-ion car battery which can perform reliably and safely for 10 years, or over hundreds of thousands of kilometers," said Koji Toyoshima, the chief engineer for the Prius.
"We have double braced and triple braced our battery pack to make sure they're fail-safe ... It's all about safety, safety, safety," he told Reuters.
Toyota has mainly used the more mature nickel-metal hydride batteries to power the motor in the conventional Prius, widely regarded as the forefather of the 'green' car, though it did use some lithium-ion batteries from 2009 in its first plug-in hybrid Prius, around the time the first all-electric cars powered by lithium-ion batteries - such as the Tesla Roadster and Nissan Leaf - came on to the mass market.
Toyota's confidence in its battery's safety and stability comes from improved control technology that precisely monitors the temperature and condition of each of the 95 cells in its new battery pack.
"Our control system can identify even slight signs of a potential short-circuit in individual cells, and will either prevent it from spreading or shut down the entire battery," said Hiroaki Takeuchi, a senior Toyota engineer involved in the development.
Working with battery supplier Panasonic Corp - which also produces Li-ion batteries for Tesla - Toyota has also improved the precision in battery cell assembly, ensuring battery chemistry is free of impurities.
The introduction of even microscopic metal particles or other impurities can trigger a short-circuit, overheating and potential explosion.
"The environment where our lithium-ion batteries are produced is not quite like the clean rooms where semiconductors are made, but very close," Takeuchi said.
Battery experts say increasingly sophisticated systems that can track individual cell conditions are becoming closely-held trade secrets.
"State of charge management, safety management and algorithm development is becoming one of the higher tiers of proprietary internal development," said Eric Rask, principal research engineer at Argonne National Laboratory, a U.S. Department of Energy facility outside Chicago.
"It's very internal, very strategic, and companies are seeing management algorithms as a competitive advantage."
FALLING PRICES
Toyota has also been able to shrink the size of each cell, for example, closing the distance between the anode and cathode, where active ions travel when charging and discharging.
This has doubled battery capacity to around 8.8 kilowatt hours, while only increasing the battery pack size by around two-thirds and its weight by a half.
Battery experts say lithium-ion battery cell prices have fallen by about 60 percent in five years to around $145 per kilowatt hour as larger-scale production has made them cheaper to make.
Falling battery prices have enabled Toyota to develop its more compact, efficient battery, while also adding more sophisticated controls into its battery pack, Toyoshima said. Toyota declined to say more on its costs.
While Toyota sees FCVs as the ultimate 'green' car, the United States and China are encouraging automakers to make more all-electric battery cars as they push alternative energy strategies.
"Developing lithium-ion batteries for both hybrids and plug-ins will enable us to also produce all-electric cars in the future," said Toyoshima said. "It makes sense to have a range of batteries to suit different powertrains."
I am looking forward to the new Camry Hybrid with a lithium ion battery pack.
#6
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I look forward to seeing how lithium ion batteries move forward. I had to deal with them on the 787.
#7
Pole Position
Toyota claims to have resolved the heat and volatile issues that plagues LiOn batteries so perhaps reliability and safety was what was holding them back from pure EVs. I mean imagine Galaxy Note 7 (RIP my lovely phone) level of explosions on an automotive scale if the batteries were not reliable?
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#8
I can't wait till Toyota kills Tesla.
#9
Lexus Champion
http://www.seattletimes.com/business...down-building/
I don't think hydrogen is the way to go but if Toyota really believed in the fuel source aren't they large enough to partner with one or another oil company to start building the infrastructure....maybe by just adding H stations to existing gasoline stations?
Last edited by bagwell; 11-08-16 at 11:57 AM.
#10
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (2)
Lexus' biggest mistake was not going plug-in EV when they were ahead of the game with luxury hybrids. It felt wrong many years ago and now they're finally catching up slower than all of the other players, even Aston Martin will have a EV Rapide before Lexus. Sigh...
#11
Lexus Champion
Toyota claims to have resolved the heat and volatile issues that plagues LiOn batteries so perhaps reliability and safety was what was holding them back from pure EVs. I mean imagine Galaxy Note 7 (RIP my lovely phone) level of explosions on an automotive scale if the batteries were not reliable?
Toyota really did not tame the lithium ion battery. It did package it better and give it better monitoring software that seems able to detect overheating down to the single cell level and then shut down the bad cell. It seems that the automotive industry is learning from the aviation industry, where monitoring software may be more elaborate than the control software.
We may see Toyota / Lexus as making a mistake by not making a plug-in hybrid or battery electric vehicle some years ago, but Toyota does not see it that way. If Toyota cannot build a reliable, safe and cost-efficient vehicle, it will not. This is not even considering the large size of battery that would have been required for a PHEV or BEV.
With the newer, smaller, less expensive, the PHEV or BEV from Toyota is a better bet.
#12
We may see Toyota / Lexus as making a mistake by not making a plug-in hybrid or battery electric vehicle some years ago, but Toyota does not see it that way. If Toyota cannot build a reliable, safe and cost-efficient vehicle, it will not. This is not even considering the large size of battery that would have been required for a PHEV or BEV.
Better start selling Tesla shares...
#14
Lexus Champion
Demand will be driven by California (CARB) and other states that may adopt similar electric vehicle / zero emissions policies, such as the other west coast states, New York and the New England states, and perhaps even some Canadian provinces, starting with Quebec.
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