stratovar

My search for my next car results in 2008 / 2009 ES350 / GS350

The obvious , or somewhat apparent:

ES = Front wheel drive, cheaper purchase price.
GS = RWD & nicer treatments, features

I have 285,000 miles on a 1992 Camry, FWD, I could care less whether I drive a FWD or RWD performance wise .
I don't need airbags for my toes, navigation to mars, nor exotic sound boxes.
What I'm concerned with is repairs , repair costs, and ease of repairs.

Would appreciate knowing which one is more likely to be easiest to repair for the diy , as well as which one is more likely to be
more affordable at the repair shop.
And above and beyond, which is the most reliable (I've read the es comes a notch ahead , but don't know personally).
And yes I realize buying extended warranties, and buying the LS , and buying new is always best, just would like
to get a heads up on the two models for repairs and reliability.
Thanks all.....

[EDIT: "Concerned with repairs, as it applies to the diff between the GS & ES" ,
NOT as it applies to buying a car , rather, the difference between the two models.
When it becomes a toss up between two cars, you tend to look for the deal breaker,
the deal breaker for me between GS & ES , is just that , can I do my own repairs
more easily, by leaps and bounds on one over the other, or avoid paying
'up to' $2475; Water Pump replacement and $1800; for an ES350 Alternator ?@?
I thought it might be a good idea to check here with real owners.
My concerns were , if it's almost $2000.00 on an ES for an alternator, what happens if
something really goes wrong... What would a timing chain run? $9000.00?
lol , so real owners might be able to debunk those figures, and justification for the
high figures, or maybe the RWD GS suddenly becomes the better choice for me,
and maybe owners could tell me they have
changed the transverse mounted ES350's water pumps and timing chains themselves,
and it was no big deal.

A roommate of mine had an earlier model 300 Sedan, I put a lot of miles on it,
she needed someone to take it out on the open road, I was happy to oblige,
there is no question that both the GS and ES will satisfy my needs for luxury, I consider Lexus, Jaguar,
Mercedes, because of my appreciation of LUXURY and PERFORMANCE, I'm not concerned with the
different appointments offered between the two different models, they both have enough to suit
my requirements. If I was going for a 6th gen Vette, or 911 Carrera, I would have a completely different
set of standards and features I'd be looking for, that is not to say I don't care about performance in a
broad sense , I already know that the performance of both GS and ES is more than I need considering
the cars that they are, and what I would expect to get out of them.
I'm not against Navigation, or Tech items Some of them are great, regarding Navigation I don't
need fancy , I just need maps, ergo the comment; "navigation to the moon" , just provide good maps ,
fuel locations, Hotels, food.
I love leather , Power seats etc , I don't need lots of Climate zones and Memory Positions
for the seats , lane departure etc.....collision avoidance.
Useful tech Items that I appreciate and are available in some vehicles would be:

Rev Match
Heads Up Display
Cruise Control
Paddle Shifters
ABS
Navigation
Power Seats
Leather
Active Suspension (Defeatable)
Stop Start Button
Keyless Entry
Satellite TV
Graduated Steering
Air Bags
Back up Camera
So I'm not at all against Tech, I'm not at all against tech or luxury, but have little
or no use for items that I consider either rediculous, redundant, or developed
on the basis of 'because we can' and/or those items that I just plainly do not need or want.
END EDIT]

mmarshall

Welcome to CL.

I'd generally go with the ES, although, for a DIY, the timing belt/chain (as applicable) and rear bank of spark plugs might be more difficult to replace or service on the ES's transverse V6 engine vs. the GS's longitudinal layout. Still, according to Consumer Reports, the ES has had a solidly excellent reliability record, while the GS, especially with AWD, has been somewhat more spotty.

Just as an aside note: One reason you got 285,000 miles out of your 1992 Camry is that that (3rd-generation) version is arguably the best one ever built. I have seen them rack up remarkable mileage, and many of them are still on the road...I see them every day. You may or may not get 285,000 miles out of the ES or GS you are considering....but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Lots of ES parts can get from Toyota, not so much for GS.
if repair is what your concern is, ES350 will be a lot cheaper to repair and maintain.

SW17LS

If repair costs and such is your primary concern, then definitely the ES.

Toys4RJill

The ES350 is easier and cheaper to fix. It likely will last longer than a GS or LS as it has less things like air suspension, rear dual zones climate controls, power truck deck lids to go wrong.

stratovar

Thanks for the welcome and the great info Marshall,
Yea, I had figured on the Water Pump, Timing Chain might be measurably more difficult on the transverse fwd es, appreciate the
verification, AWD is luckily not something I have need for. I have read quite a few repair reviews that reflect what you say about
Consumer Reports findings, ES looks to come out ahead.
I don't mind spending money or doing work myself, I have this phobia though of being charged $2000 for a water pump r and r ,
because the badge says Lexus, even though it may just be an ES, and then find out there are bigger problems once the
dealer has had time to dream things up. That of course is a matter of finding honest mechanics/dealerships which is true of any vehicle.

What is mind boggling in the auto industry after thousands of hours of online shopping and comparing, between Ford, GM, to Jaguar,
Hyundai, to Honda, and most in between, is that they all seem to eventually work out the bugs of each generation , or product line,
then shtcan' the entire line and start over with a ground up design that is good for the introduction year
(or not) , maybe the third year is great, then never reproduce the vehicle that is virtually 'bullet proof' again.
I realize its partly 'designed obsolescence' , but that doesn't make it right.
Timing Belts on interference engines is another shame imo, you can't know for sure that your mechanic changed it or
the person ahead of you really got it done, or maybe they put in an inferior belt that goes out at another 30k mi instead of the
expected 60 or 80. I understand some of the justification by the engineers, but don't agree with it.
This is one thing I like about my little Camry, though its a belt , its old school non interference, and I don't know that the
3.5 is non interference, but I know it's chain, I feel a chain will skip a cog, or be obvious with rattle/slap when starting the
engine, to give enough heads up to have it changed.
I'm leaning toward the ES for sure after reading the replies.
A runner up to these models in my search is the BMW 650i , but I would need to nearly become a BMW mechanic to be able to
afford the upkeep.

stratovar

*Thanks 400, I did not know about 'parts' (avail toy es), interesting, I'm not so much worried about
cheaper repairs as I am getting stuck with catastrophic failures and repairs*. I started out just about
dead set on the GS, until I realized the differences between GS , ES and LS, haven't even looked into
the LS, just know it's the top end of this line, and not something I need.

I'm not worried about 'cost' nearly as much as I'm concerned with , can I diy , or is it a really tough
project on one vs the other.

*Excellent items I was not aware of , I have zero need (though they're cool) for any of these items: "air suspension, rear dual zones climate controls, power trunk deck lids" these things scare me, thanks much for the heads up.*

SW17LS

The era cars your looking at Jill's concerns don't really equate. You can get an LS without air suspension, rear zone climate. The GS doesn't even come with air suspension or rear zone climate. The power trunk is a very minor system and if it stops working the trunk still works normally.

Any of these cars will last a long time, and the chances of catastrophic failure are extremely low with any Lexus. I still have in the family my 03 ES with nearly 190k miles on it, never had any major issues. My 98 LS had 170k on it when it was traded, no major issues and it had air suspension.

Lots of people own these cars with high mileage without issues. One price of advice, if you look at a Lexus 2007 or newer it will have a timing chain not a belt.

Toys4RJill

Forgot to add the adaptive variable suspension which likely will not last as long as a regular standard type suspension.

SW17LS

The adaptive variable suspension can be disconnected and the vehicles suspension operates as normal. in any event, it's always been an option so you shouldn't let it dictate what model you look at.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

if OP doesn't care about luxury features, might as well get another camry.

SW17LS

i was going to add that too...

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

OP, do not buy a BMW 650i, doesn't matter what year, it could cost you 10k + repair in one year. You are looking at most reliable Lexus ES vs one of worst reliable BMW...

Toys4RJill

I agree with you

stratovar

I agree , the 6 series is probably at least among if not the' most unreliable of the BMWs , that's why I mentioned virtually changing my life
and becoming a BMW mechanic to accommodate the vehicles needs, as in "I would gladly change my life to better suit your mood..." (Santana/"Smooth).
As for the cute comment from someone on , 'might as well keep the camry' lol , how I couldn't see that coming (☺),
major apologies for not including the word 'added' in the use of the term 'luxury' (added luxury not needed).
I appreciate the comment that was made about being able to turn off the 'adaptive suspension' & the years I'm looking at
(according to others here, which sounds about right ) won't have that feature.

IMO this is engineering at its finest (Adaptive bypass) , that is to say, engineers that understand
that many of the high tech features they produce are not appreciated (by everyone at least not full time),
or can disable a perfectly fine vehicle upon fail , further, I would love to see all manufacturers put a large 'BYPASS' switch on the dash with
a menu that includes available selective deletion/disable of one or many of the super automated and advance features they have given us:
Memory Seats
Heated / AC Seats
Collision Avoidance
Stop Start (GM)
Memory Steering Column
Adaptive Suspension
Traction Control (of course often a nice feature)
Parking assistance
Lane departure Guidance

Some of us know how to drive and do not choose to relinquish our abilities nor attention
from where it belongs, which imo is ;
Driving the vehicle, paying attention to surroundings,
hazards, weather, people, and road conditions.
Thanks all, for some fantastic input and information!!