What's The Point Of Owning A 'Luxury' Car Anymore?
08-25-16, 02:45 PM
#76
Since you did not list driving dynamics as one of your criteria(perhaps the best thing about the RWD GS), go take a look at a new Avalon, the all new 2017 Buick LaCrosse, the new Nissan Maxima, the Hyundia Genesis, Acura TLX, a loaded Honda Accord Touring, and an Infiniti Q50(without the drive by wire steering). I think you'd be suprised by some of those cars. Granted they are going to cost more than a 2013 GS, brutal depreciation has made a used GS a real good value for $$$$$.
08-25-16, 02:59 PM
#77
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Look at the mess VW has gotten into with image. For years, they have touted themselves as one of the world's largest companies (which they are, outside of the U.S.)....and now we find out that their diesel-emissions system was designed by crooks.
08-25-16, 03:47 PM
#78
Lexus Fanatic
08-25-16, 11:42 PM
#79
Lexus Fanatic
And on the other side, I am sure there are many buyers who choose not to spend their hard-earned $$$$$$ on image, but yet they have been burned as well. But on the point of this thread, a luxury brand conveys something that a non-luxury brand does not. Two cars can be similarly equipped yet the the luxury branded model will mean more. There will always be a market for these types of products. People will pay for them.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 08-25-16 at 11:45 PM.
08-26-16, 06:18 AM
#80
Lexus Fanatic
But on the point of this thread, a luxury brand conveys something that a non-luxury brand does not. Two cars can be similarly equipped yet the the luxury branded model will mean more. There will always be a market for these types of products. People will pay for them.
08-26-16, 10:17 AM
#81
Lexus Fanatic
Interesting discussion.
I've made this point before, that we're living in a time when "ordinary people" have access to better cars than they have probably since the 50s and 60s. Economy cars, midsize cars, etc have a lot more flair, quality, technology, enjoyability. My cousin just bought a new Civic and its really nice, great looking, fun to drive, has a lot of neat tech and it isn't even loaded. Ton of motoring enjoyment for $23k. If you compare it to what a Civic was just 5 years ago its significant, go 10 years, even moreso. There are plenty of mainstream cars out there today I would happily buy and drive.
People will always buy luxury cars though. They will continue to push the envelope and make them even better. Whenever you try and "quantify" the value of something that is a luxury it will come up short. The intangibles are what people pay huge premiums for.
What about a Rolex makes it worth $20,000 over a $200 Seiko? What about a room at the Ritz Carlton make it worth $800 a night when a Marriott might be $200? What makes a First Class ticket worth $6,000 when a business class ticket is $3,000 and a coach ticket is $1,200? If you just line up the tangible, factual benefits you will always come to the conclusion that these luxury products are not worthwhile, but luxury can't be quantified just by factual, tangible benefits.
I've made this point before, that we're living in a time when "ordinary people" have access to better cars than they have probably since the 50s and 60s. Economy cars, midsize cars, etc have a lot more flair, quality, technology, enjoyability. My cousin just bought a new Civic and its really nice, great looking, fun to drive, has a lot of neat tech and it isn't even loaded. Ton of motoring enjoyment for $23k. If you compare it to what a Civic was just 5 years ago its significant, go 10 years, even moreso. There are plenty of mainstream cars out there today I would happily buy and drive.
People will always buy luxury cars though. They will continue to push the envelope and make them even better. Whenever you try and "quantify" the value of something that is a luxury it will come up short. The intangibles are what people pay huge premiums for.
What about a Rolex makes it worth $20,000 over a $200 Seiko? What about a room at the Ritz Carlton make it worth $800 a night when a Marriott might be $200? What makes a First Class ticket worth $6,000 when a business class ticket is $3,000 and a coach ticket is $1,200? If you just line up the tangible, factual benefits you will always come to the conclusion that these luxury products are not worthwhile, but luxury can't be quantified just by factual, tangible benefits.
08-26-16, 10:56 AM
#82
Lexus Fanatic
The reason I would buy a "luxury" car is also due to the dealer service. This may not be true with BMW, but Lexus and Infiniti have treated me very well and have offered loaner cars for the most routine service. In my experience, the mainstream brands do not offer the same experience. Even their showrooms are down market.
I leased a new Honda Accord for my cousin, and when I drove the top-of-the-line Touring version I was quite impressed. I considered one for about a minute, until I realized the wood is fake. Yet another reason to go for a luxury car with higher quality materials. Her battery died (incredible in a new Accord), but Roadside Assistance came and made it right. That is yet another way the luxury and mainstream brands are converging.
On another topic, what is the VW equivalent of an Audi S5, and why would you not consider it "luxury enough". Do you think an A8 is not luxury enough? If you don't think it is, go check it out. ;-)
I leased a new Honda Accord for my cousin, and when I drove the top-of-the-line Touring version I was quite impressed. I considered one for about a minute, until I realized the wood is fake. Yet another reason to go for a luxury car with higher quality materials. Her battery died (incredible in a new Accord), but Roadside Assistance came and made it right. That is yet another way the luxury and mainstream brands are converging.
On another topic, what is the VW equivalent of an Audi S5, and why would you not consider it "luxury enough". Do you think an A8 is not luxury enough? If you don't think it is, go check it out. ;-)
You expect a mainstream family sedan like a Accord to have real wood trim and did not choose it even though the you liked the rest because it didn't have real wood trim? I have never heard of that? I don't think any mainstream family sedan uses real wood trim for very long time aside from maybe a VW model, it is extremely rare to find real wood trim from any non luxury mainstream make for any vehicle, I think a version of the Mazda CX-9 and a top Buick have real wood trim but that is about it these days. Most of the "real" wood trim in most luxury cars is actually just a very very fine thin sliver of real wood glued to a piece of plastic, not really all that luxurious especially when most wood trim is so polished, lacquered, and shiny it looks just like simulated wood trim.
The difference between lux cars and mainstream cars is becoming smaller and smaller I have noticed over the years especially with the awful trend of lux makers sticking more 4 cylinders in more and bigger vehicles. Luxury makers need to step up their game when it comes to lux cars and start making more lux features standard and adding new ones so the difference is clearer.
08-26-16, 05:21 PM
#83
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Interesting discussion.
I've made this point before, that we're living in a time when "ordinary people" have access to better cars than they have probably since the 50s and 60s. Economy cars, midsize cars, etc have a lot more flair, quality, technology, enjoyability. My cousin just bought a new Civic and its really nice, great looking, fun to drive, has a lot of neat tech and it isn't even loaded. Ton of motoring enjoyment for $23k. If you compare it to what a Civic was just 5 years ago its significant, go 10 years, even moreso. There are plenty of mainstream cars out there today I would happily buy and drive.
People will always buy luxury cars though. They will continue to push the envelope and make them even better. Whenever you try and "quantify" the value of something that is a luxury it will come up short. The intangibles are what people pay huge premiums for.
What about a Rolex makes it worth $20,000 over a $200 Seiko? What about a room at the Ritz Carlton make it worth $800 a night when a Marriott might be $200? What makes a First Class ticket worth $6,000 when a business class ticket is $3,000 and a coach ticket is $1,200? If you just line up the tangible, factual benefits you will always come to the conclusion that these luxury products are not worthwhile, but luxury can't be quantified just by factual, tangible benefits.
I've made this point before, that we're living in a time when "ordinary people" have access to better cars than they have probably since the 50s and 60s. Economy cars, midsize cars, etc have a lot more flair, quality, technology, enjoyability. My cousin just bought a new Civic and its really nice, great looking, fun to drive, has a lot of neat tech and it isn't even loaded. Ton of motoring enjoyment for $23k. If you compare it to what a Civic was just 5 years ago its significant, go 10 years, even moreso. There are plenty of mainstream cars out there today I would happily buy and drive.
People will always buy luxury cars though. They will continue to push the envelope and make them even better. Whenever you try and "quantify" the value of something that is a luxury it will come up short. The intangibles are what people pay huge premiums for.
What about a Rolex makes it worth $20,000 over a $200 Seiko? What about a room at the Ritz Carlton make it worth $800 a night when a Marriott might be $200? What makes a First Class ticket worth $6,000 when a business class ticket is $3,000 and a coach ticket is $1,200? If you just line up the tangible, factual benefits you will always come to the conclusion that these luxury products are not worthwhile, but luxury can't be quantified just by factual, tangible benefits.
If a long haul coach ticket is 1,200 as it often is (let's just say from USA to Asia), a business class is about $6,000, and a first class ticket well into the $12,000 or higher. In addition, those "ordinary" people also now have access to driving entry level luxury cars. 3 series, CLA, for $199 a month lease? pretty much anyone and their mom can afford that.
08-26-16, 06:26 PM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by RXSF
Steve, you have to update those airline ticket prices If a long haul coach ticket is 1,200 as it often is (let's just say from USA to Asia), a business class is about $6,000, and a first class ticket well into the $12,000 or higher.
In addition, those "ordinary" people also now have access to driving entry level luxury cars. 3 series, CLA, for $199 a month lease? pretty much anyone and their mom can afford that.
If a long haul coach ticket is 1,200 as it often is (let's just say from USA to Asia), a business class is about $6,000, and a first class ticket well into the $12,000 or higher. In addition, those "ordinary" people also now have access to driving entry level luxury cars. 3 series, CLA, for $199 a month lease? pretty much anyone and their mom can afford that.
That CLA for $199 is pretty crummy though. I'd much rather have a nice Mazda...but your point is taken.
08-26-16, 07:44 PM
#85
That was my point earlier, those entry level $199 a month lease special BMW, Benz, and Audi A3 are pretty crap car cars IMO. You need to spend 40-45k minimum to get into a decent German luxury car that is well optioned and has a decent engine under the hood. Even then I don't think a $45k BMW 328i is going to have as many bells and whistles, as much room, or as much horsepower as something like a $30-35k Fusion Sport or Accord Touring.
08-26-16, 08:02 PM
#86
Lexus Champion
Some are not that concerned with the dealership experience as far as it having a fancy waiting room, when I buy a car I want to spend as little time as possible in the dealership which is why I do as much maintenance as I can so I can also make sure no corners were cut. I don't even use the Lexus dealership close to me because it is so expensive compared to the Toyota dealership for the same service. Free loaner cars are nice though which is what I would prefer if I have to get work done at the dealership.
You expect a mainstream family sedan like a Accord to have real wood trim and did not choose it even though the you liked the rest because it didn't have real wood trim? I have never heard of that? I don't think any mainstream family sedan uses real wood trim for very long time aside from maybe a VW model, it is extremely rare to find real wood trim from any non luxury mainstream make for any vehicle, I think a version of the Mazda CX-9 and a top Buick have real wood trim but that is about it these days. Most of the "real" wood trim in most luxury cars is actually just a very very fine thin sliver of real wood glued to a piece of plastic, not really all that luxurious especially when most wood trim is so polished, lacquered, and shiny it looks just like simulated wood trim.
The difference between lux cars and mainstream cars is becoming smaller and smaller I have noticed over the years especially with the awful trend of lux makers sticking more 4 cylinders in more and bigger vehicles. Luxury makers need to step up their game when it comes to lux cars and start making more lux features standard and adding new ones so the difference is clearer.
You expect a mainstream family sedan like a Accord to have real wood trim and did not choose it even though the you liked the rest because it didn't have real wood trim? I have never heard of that? I don't think any mainstream family sedan uses real wood trim for very long time aside from maybe a VW model, it is extremely rare to find real wood trim from any non luxury mainstream make for any vehicle, I think a version of the Mazda CX-9 and a top Buick have real wood trim but that is about it these days. Most of the "real" wood trim in most luxury cars is actually just a very very fine thin sliver of real wood glued to a piece of plastic, not really all that luxurious especially when most wood trim is so polished, lacquered, and shiny it looks just like simulated wood trim.
The difference between lux cars and mainstream cars is becoming smaller and smaller I have noticed over the years especially with the awful trend of lux makers sticking more 4 cylinders in more and bigger vehicles. Luxury makers need to step up their game when it comes to lux cars and start making more lux features standard and adding new ones so the difference is clearer.
I do agree with you that lux manufacturers putting 4 cylinder engines under the hood is not especially pleasing, but they also have to follow CAFE standards for fuel economy and it seems the Audi A4 with the 4 cylinder turbo is quite the car... with real wood.
Last edited by dseag2; 08-26-16 at 08:10 PM.
08-27-16, 03:43 AM
#88
Lexus Fanatic
08-27-16, 09:32 AM
#89
Lexus Fanatic
08-27-16, 03:13 PM
#90
I think part of the question is what is considered "Luxury" anymore as the lines get blurred. Mercedes is certainly a "Luxury Brand" but is the CLA250 a Luxury car? It is tiny inside, has a very stiff ride, is noisy, and the transmission shifting at low speeds is rough. The newest Ford Fusion includes a Platinum series which has a plush interior with real leather seats, good room, a smooth quiet ride, etc. Given that Ford is not a "Luxury Brand", the Platinum level Fusion is certainly more luxurious than a CLA. For about the same price, I'll take the Ford!