Toys4RJill

I never said they were the same, I said they were pretty much the same vehicle.

mmarshall

Well, you said one was not a true luxury car, while the other one was. As I see it, both are entry-level luxury cars, though one has an upmarket luxury nameplate and the other doesn't.

I can think of an even worse-case scenario....do you remember the Mazda Millennia and 929? I'd consider both of them entry-level luxury sedans (I test-drove them both), though neither of them had a true luxury-nameplate. In fact, the Millennia was designed to be the first offering of Mazda's planned Amati division, until the bean-counters at Ford (who owned Mazda at the time) axed the Amati project. They ended up selling the Millennia and 929 right next to each other, out of the same Mazda showrooms, until both were dropped.

dseag2

The reason I would buy a "luxury" car is also due to the dealer service. This may not be true with BMW, but Lexus and Infiniti have treated me very well and have offered loaner cars for the most routine service. In my experience, the mainstream brands do not offer the same experience. Even their showrooms are down market.

I leased a new Honda Accord for my cousin, and when I drove the top-of-the-line Touring version I was quite impressed. I considered one for about a minute, until I realized the wood is fake. Yet another reason to go for a luxury car with higher quality materials. Her battery died (incredible in a new Accord), but Roadside Assistance came and made it right. That is yet another way the luxury and mainstream brands are converging.

On another topic, what is the VW equivalent of an Audi S5, and why would you not consider it "luxury enough". Do you think an A8 is not luxury enough? If you don't think it is, go check it out. ;-)

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Agreed, your post mostly resonates my sentiments a few posts back

Not at all, very much so. You took my post out of context. I was responding to this line albeit in a cheeky manner

dseag2

Ahhh, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

mmarshall

VW has never sold or marketed an equivalent of the Audi S5 in the American market. Probably the closest things to it were the old VR6 Scirocco and Corrado performance-coupes....but even they were a long way from the upscale, luxurious character of an S5. And they have been gone from the American market for quite some time.

RXSF

Brand cache certainly means a lot and there will always be people in this world who value it enough to buy luxury items.

And then there will be people who truly appreciate what it means to drive a luxury car. People who value materials, refinement, and innovation. Luxury makes, for the most part, have really stepped up to make their cars better in recent years. Case in point is MB, who now needs to turn to design, great materials, and technology to differentiate themselves from other makes who are catching up. There is a lot of innovation and engineering that goes into luxury cars that you simply cannot get in a non-luxury cars. To name a few, door locks that automatically unlock in the event of an accident, hazards flashing in the event of an accident, auto headlights linked to wipers, wipers that wont stop in mid brush when engine is turned off....

mmarshall

Daytime Running Lights (DRLs), which come with most new vehicles nowadays, pretty much have that covered. They are on whenever the ignition is on and the emergency brake is released....wipers or not. And even many cheaper cars have the "Auto" feature which automatically bumps the DRLs up to full-headlight strength at night or in a dark environment.

That's a good feature. I like that.

KevinGS

Can't believe you listed those 4 items as distinguishing characteristics of engineering in a luxury car..........automatic door locks and automatic hazards in the case of an accident, and wipers that won't stop in mid brush LOL

Wow, did you really decide on a vehicle based on those items?

Those are "nice to haves", but things that separate true luxury for me is the quality of the manufacturing process, the access to the latest advancements of technology (like adaptive LED lighting), and the better use of materials throughout the interior and exterior......and of course better-looking (aesthetics).

If my luxury car's wipers stopped in mid brush, that wouldn't annoy me in the least (I wouldn't think "Damn EconoCar!")....I'd just turn the car back on and let the wipe finish. And let's hope I never have the need for auto unlocking and hazards in an accident, but really, a manufacturer could apply this to their entire lineup of cars if they wanted to...and they should. This should not only be on luxury cars, it's a safety feature.

Auto headlights linked to wipers, yes, that's nice.....but again, not something I'd miss. I know to turn on my headlights when I'm using my wipers. For me, it's another nice-to-have, something I'd barely notice.

RXSF

Yes, these things to me mean luxury, in addition to the better materials and aesthetics. Its the engineering involved behind the vehicle. Someone at that luxury brand cared enough to implement these things. No, they aren't deal breakers, but they are what set the cars apart from mainstream brands, to me.

coolsaber

I think personally what most brands which are reputable establishments in the Mass Market Luxury Market brand are doing things exactly like they have been always doing things.

1) Every single press release has been thoroughly concentrated in introducing Market first features. This Decades trend is market safety/autonomous driving. 1st auto brake, 1st auto brake hold, 1st rear cross traffic alert, 1st carplay, 1st adaptive cruise with full on steering, 1st to something something. The most firsts you can incorporate the more hype, and showroom traffic you can make.

2) Every mass market luxury brand has figured out that, Luxury is a name, and there is an untapped potential out there willing to pay for that name, which are those who ordinarily buy a Full decked out Honda Accord but instead choose to splurge on a lower end CLA, or 320i, A3 etc. And by jolly, are these people buying out these base spec models in the crapton. The only issue is that besides the name, your essentially investing in an outdated, underspeced vehicle thats a former shell of itself. Honda Accord in that top trim level gets, you nav, carplay, big engine, cameras galore, semi autonmous driving, while the CLA gets you basically a cramped backset. The materials stink of cost control, heck the materials probably are worse then in that Honda. But hey, bimmer benz or bentley right?

In regards to the 535i, vs the Ford fusion...I dont know why you`d be cross shopping the two normally, but anything is possible. The aston martin grill and design incorporation into the fusion is sweet, but i doubt something that will stop a 535i buyer to consider it. What does concide with the article is, lets just compare a bare bones 528i to a ford fusion. More power (and whoever mentioned that the fusion will essentially fall apart at top speed, remember to take your pills), Pre-collision alert, ACC stop and go, active parking, BLIS, X traffic alert, cameras, Lane Keep assist. Basically all the things that dont come on the 528i standard. Yea, the pleather, and the plastic steel trim on the base 5 series will keep you happy in addition to the RWD, and turbo 4, but to most drivers nowdays, semi autonomous feature set is pretty big. This plethora of active and passive safety is launching standard on the 17 Toyotas as well, so again the only glaring things holding down a 320i driver from jumping ship are material perceived quality, brand name, and dealer perks.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

thumbup:



Its those little things. Soft close doors.

Tiny engraved 'Lexus' on the screws in the NX

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Well, a 15k Hermes purse does the same job as a hundred bucks Michael Kors one, even looks similar, but people still would prefer owning a Hermes anyday if they can afford it. So there always will be a huge market for luxury brands.

btw, I think Avalon is more like a premium car vs ES as an entry level luxury sedan. Meanwhile, I don't consider lower end models of tier 1 brand as luxury car, look at 320i, CLA, and A4 etc, there is nothing luxury about it. I bought my X1 as a fun little grocery getter, beater, never treat it as a luxury car lol.

Toys4RJill

I am not so sure the Lexus imprinted screws mean luxury, it still says "Manufactured by Toyota Corp" on the door. And plus the screws should not be exposed, it makes the interior look unfinished and cheap. As for the $10,000 audio ****, it is just pure marketing. But I do get your point .

One of my favourite features from Lexus is the windows and how they slow down and come to a close when they are coming to a finish moving upwards.

Toys4RJill

And if you reverse the badges, I would say the Avalon is a luxury car and the ES is not.