isfdave86

iTrader: (1)

This was an interesting read. I remember a few people stating the Infiniti was disappointing. I'm not surprised there's several Jeep models on this list as well.

http://www3.forbes.com/business/13-n...void-for-2016/

DBrian

Yes not surprised Detroit made a big showing; a Ford Fiesta is the prize winner with a -267 score in reliability out of a possible +100(!).
On a side note, I had trouble moving past the photo on the first page of the incredibly hot girl receiving a new key FOB from a hypothetical salesman....

isfdave86

iTrader: (1)

lol. before an ad covered it up, it appeared that her fly was down too,

daedalus

iTrader: (2)

Infiniti most likely due to their stupid drive by wire steering that everyone hates.

BluStreak1

iTrader: (4)

The buttons on her blouse must be made of steel! Sheesh!

bagwell

I think the Dart is pretty cool looking....I wouldn't mind one for a daily driver/beater.

ROYALISF

I think they can be also in certain trims but they are awful. If they'd make a SRT version I'd be interested

mmarshall

I have to strongly disagree on the Chrysler 200...in site of the fact that CEO Sergio Marchionne of FCA himself disliked it. I did a full-review on the V6 version and found it quite impressive overall, except for the Mickey-Mouse rotary shift-**** that is increasingly being used in Chrysler products now. In fact, had I not bought a Verano, a V6 200 would have probably been #3 or #4 on the list.

I'm not sure I agree, either, with the Suburban being on the list. Sure, it's huge, thirsty, bulky, hard-to-park, and expensive. But, when you have 7-9 people to carry, while towing a boat with them, a Prius isn't going to cut it.

Toys4RJill

mmarshall, you always have a soft spot for domestics. It's no surprise. But, most will tell you that the domestic cars (not truck) still do not capture the prestige and perception of the Japanese or Germans.

I have noticed you have said quite a few comments that you would of bought this or you would of bought that. And that you might buy this. Is the Verano not living up to expectations?

Toys4RJill

Yup no surprise at all.

BrownPride

The only surprise for me on this list was the Infiniti Q50. If they had made the list longer I'm sure more GMs, Fords, and the rest of FCA's lineup that wasn't already there would fill it up.

Toys4RJill

LOL, I am sure GM, Ford, or FCA could of filled up a list alone

But seriously, how is a Suburban anymore difficult to park or load than a Sequoia, Expedition, and what would be the alternative? Basically this was a Forbes bash on American cars while using the Consumer Reports data.

mmarshall

In case you haven't noticed, Jill (and no offense), the car industry today is truly global. A vehicle can be designed in one country, built in another, shipped back and forth between two assembly plants (as with the American/Italian Chrysler Maserati TC), using parts from still another, and sold in (or primarily in) yet another. So, except for the American-sourced nameplates (Ford, Buick, Chrysler, etc....), or nameplates sourced from other countries, there is no such thing anymore as a truly "domestic" or "foreign" vehicle.

Even the Toyota Corolla, which you yourself drive, was marketed here in the U.S. as a "domestic" vehicle, under three different "domestic" badges....first, the Chevrolet Nova in the 1980s, then the Geo Prizm, then the Chevrolet Prizm when the Geo division was discontinued.

(A humorous fact about the Nova, and one thing that suppressed sales, was that the name "Nova", in Spanish, was confused with "no va", which means "won't go", or "wont run". That led a number of people who didn't understand either English or Spanish very well to assume that the car was named that way because it was unreliable and spent a lot of time in the shop....which, of course, as a rebadged Corolla, was not true at all. In fact, in the 1980s, it was the most reliable car on the road with a GM nameplate).

Tell that to the guy who owns a Corvette. Or a Camaro SS. Or a Shelby Mustang. Or a Charger/Challenger SRT. Then compare the amount of bang you get for the buck, compared to Porsches, BMW M's, Mercedes AMGs, or other non-U.S.-nameplate muscle-car competition. I myself am not a muscle-car freak or a particularly aggressive driver (though I once owned a 60s-vintage Plymouth Barracuda)....but I'm just illustrating that for comparison purposes.

And, yes, you are certainly correct about the trucks. Ford and Chevy (GMC) rule the full-size pickup market....with the Dodge Ram a rather distant third. Over time, the Toyota Tundra has made some, but not that much, leeway against the Big Three....the Nissan Titan almost nothing.



Meeting expectations? Yes, definitely so...and, in some cases, exceeding them. Athough I understand the reasons for doing do (more SUV production), I'm irked at Buick for having scrubbed the 2017 Verano from the U.S. market. My only (minor) complaints are the un-Buick-like 45-series tires and the lack of small V6. But I knew that when I bought the car, and I knew exactly what I was getting. No, it doesn't have the versatility of the Outback I owned several years ago, and it's not as Buick-like as the big Electra I had in college, but, especially for the money (25K) it is a superb product.

But it is not the only nice entry-level upscale compact sedan, even if it is the quietest and with plushest-seats...the Chrysler 200 and Audi A3 are also quite nice vehicles in their niche (that's where I disagreed with the 200 being on the avoid-list), at least in V6 format)....though I was less-impressed with the Acura ILX and its lack of refinement.

Especially now that my knee-injury is getting back to snuff, I review and/or test-drive a lot of vehicles (even if I don't do a formal write-up), and, just because I make comments about this vehicle or that vehicle doesn't mean that I wish I could trade my own vehicle in on one. Also, when I bought my Verano, there were a couple of runner-ups as well that I liked .....I don't see anything wrong with discussing that, as you yourself did in your own family with the Corolla, Sequoia, and 4Runner. Every time I test a vehicle, I think about what it would be like to own it. Indeed, that is one of the main reasons why I do reviews (often by CL-member request)...to help determine what a vehicle would be like to live with as a daily driver. That's also why I spend much of my time in the reviews with detailed explanations of the car from stem to stern, instead of the usual emphasis on performance like you find in the auto magazines. I'll do some moderately hard acceleration, handling, and braking on the test-drive, but not to the limits.....most drivers don't ever drive that way, and I'm often driving brand-new vehicles that don't belong to me, and aren't broken in yet.

So, Jill..........if you have any reservations at all about my automotive views, just read my avitar and signature. It says. "Let's talk CARS", not just Buicks.......and it means what it says.

ssmoked

I wonder how reliable their price prediction and analysis are. Using the Q50 ($33950 base price) as an example, their expected values are:

46% original value after 3 years which is $15617
32% original value after 5 years which is $10864

even Hyundai, Kia, or the crappiest domestic doesn't lose that much value. I highly doubt you can find a 5 year old Infiniti anywhere for $10864 unless it has rediculous miles or crashed

mmarshall

Hyundais and Kias, for years, had higher-than-average depreciation, based on the outdated view that the cars were junk and an overly-risky buys in the used-car market. It took the public a long time (some ten years) to catch up to reality, and to the fact that today, Kias and Hyundais are some of the best-built vehicles on the market. Today, used Hyundais and Kias are worth much more in comparison to previous years. My brother, for instance, when he traded in his 5-year-old Kia Soul on a new Sportage, got not only a nice discount and rebate on the Sportage, but more than KBB for the trades as well. The dealership might have made some money on that deal, but not much.

Though the reliability on their newer products (probably thanks to Renault ownership) is not in the same good category it once was, Infiniti still does some decent products. But the unreliability reputation is now catching up with them (like it did with Hyundai in the 1990s), and, yes, significant depreciation is the result.