Forbes 2016 Cars to Avoid
08-22-16, 06:54 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Though it is several years old, here is a good article on the subject. Though the author makes a punctuation error here and there, It generally tells it like it is:
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-214375
No such thing as an American car anymore
By GoPATS | Posted February 16, 2009 | Garden Grove, California
For all of you folks out there who do not the facts behind what goes into an automobile - both domestic and foreign. The only thing today that makes an American car "American" are simply the name/badge on it and where the profits ultimately end up.
A domestic car has parts made from all over the world, (Mexico, Canada, yes even China, Taiwan, and Japan). Everything is just pieced together on the assembly line here in the US, Mexico and Canda, yes Canada and Mexico! Talk about an American car being American when it's not even assembled in the US, let alone their parts are not even 50% American made if that.
So what makes an import not "American" ? It's just simply the name and where the profits go. Imports do consist of American internal parts as well as some cars even being assembled here in US. All vehicles, domestic and imports alike, contribute the the American economy with only 2 differences (name and profits).
Americans do work at both domestic and foreign auto plants providing a source of income for them and their families the last time I was aware. Auto dealerships that sell foreign cars are American owned and run. Insurance companies that insure foreign cars are American. Aftermarket retail parts stores and service shops are owned and operated by Americans that sell and service both domestics and foreign. Americans pay taxes to the state and local governments for both domestics and imports. So what are the only 2 differences? 1-the name/badge of the car and 2-the profit for domestics go to American executives and shareholders while we the American taxpayers and bailing them out so they can live a lavish lifestyle; profits for foreign automaker profits go overseas to pay their executives and shareholders so they can live a lavish lifestyle. It's not like we are going to ever see a dime of those profits or benefit from them anyway so why should we care? It's not that we should only buy "American" but we should be buying cars in general to help our fellow American workers across all industries and local and state governments generate income to help kickstart the US economy again (pending banks start lending to the average consumer again).
I've owned numerous cars during my lifetime and the majority of them are Japanese/German simply because it's preference and in my experience they are more stylish, efficient, and of better quality. Resale value holds way much better when switching cars too. Now I own a 2003 BMW 530i with the M sports package 5-speed manual shift. Although repairs/maintenance is costly it is choice and the American service shops are able to feed their family by me owning it, having it serviced, insured and paying taxes.
Bottom line, I am somewhat biased when it comes to domestics vs foreign because of bad experiences with owning domestics (95 Corscia, 87 TransAm, 85 Blazer, 2000 Taurus). However, the phrase "Buy American" is simply stupid and ignorant because most don't even know what goes into an "American" car these days... think about that for a while now and you'll see that buying American is just an ignorant phrase.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-214375
No such thing as an American car anymore
By GoPATS | Posted February 16, 2009 | Garden Grove, California
For all of you folks out there who do not the facts behind what goes into an automobile - both domestic and foreign. The only thing today that makes an American car "American" are simply the name/badge on it and where the profits ultimately end up.
A domestic car has parts made from all over the world, (Mexico, Canada, yes even China, Taiwan, and Japan). Everything is just pieced together on the assembly line here in the US, Mexico and Canda, yes Canada and Mexico! Talk about an American car being American when it's not even assembled in the US, let alone their parts are not even 50% American made if that.
So what makes an import not "American" ? It's just simply the name and where the profits go. Imports do consist of American internal parts as well as some cars even being assembled here in US. All vehicles, domestic and imports alike, contribute the the American economy with only 2 differences (name and profits).
Americans do work at both domestic and foreign auto plants providing a source of income for them and their families the last time I was aware. Auto dealerships that sell foreign cars are American owned and run. Insurance companies that insure foreign cars are American. Aftermarket retail parts stores and service shops are owned and operated by Americans that sell and service both domestics and foreign. Americans pay taxes to the state and local governments for both domestics and imports. So what are the only 2 differences? 1-the name/badge of the car and 2-the profit for domestics go to American executives and shareholders while we the American taxpayers and bailing them out so they can live a lavish lifestyle; profits for foreign automaker profits go overseas to pay their executives and shareholders so they can live a lavish lifestyle. It's not like we are going to ever see a dime of those profits or benefit from them anyway so why should we care? It's not that we should only buy "American" but we should be buying cars in general to help our fellow American workers across all industries and local and state governments generate income to help kickstart the US economy again (pending banks start lending to the average consumer again).
I've owned numerous cars during my lifetime and the majority of them are Japanese/German simply because it's preference and in my experience they are more stylish, efficient, and of better quality. Resale value holds way much better when switching cars too. Now I own a 2003 BMW 530i with the M sports package 5-speed manual shift. Although repairs/maintenance is costly it is choice and the American service shops are able to feed their family by me owning it, having it serviced, insured and paying taxes.
Bottom line, I am somewhat biased when it comes to domestics vs foreign because of bad experiences with owning domestics (95 Corscia, 87 TransAm, 85 Blazer, 2000 Taurus). However, the phrase "Buy American" is simply stupid and ignorant because most don't even know what goes into an "American" car these days... think about that for a while now and you'll see that buying American is just an ignorant phrase.
08-22-16, 06:57 AM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
The upcoming Cadillac CT6 hybrid is going to made in China, that is a huge insult to the American people as Cadillac should be made and assembled in the USA.
08-22-16, 07:03 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Well, by arguing with me, you yourself just proved one of the points I was trying to make.....that the auto business is truly global nowadays, and the very definition of an American, European, Korean, or Japanese product is muddled. That goes way above both you and me......even the industry and auto press can't always agree on what is what. Again, nationalities are generally limited to nameplates.
People driving around in a Chinese made Buick Envision are not telling people that they are driving a "Chinese Car".
08-22-16, 07:36 AM
#34
Lexus Champion
Nobody has argued that the car industry is not global. But brands such as Mercedes, BMW or Audi are still German brands. Toyota and Honda are Japanese brands.
People driving around in a Chinese made Buick Envision are not telling people that they are driving a "Chinese Car".
People driving around in a Chinese made Buick Envision are not telling people that they are driving a "Chinese Car".
08-22-16, 09:11 AM
#35
Lexus Fanatic
Agree, no reason to build that car in China when the US has plenty of factories and workers to build it. Was this part of "saving GM" to have more and more vehicles/parts made in Mexico and China?
08-22-16, 01:11 PM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
Yup, a total shame on GMs part. Also, a big disappointment that Lexus is now building the ES and RX in the United States. I can totally understand when a lower end model like a Camry etc is made in the USA, but if you are paying a premium for something, I think it should come from Japan, Germany or in Cadillacs case, the United States.
08-22-16, 01:24 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
Also, a big disappointment that Lexus is now building the ES and RX in the United States. I can totally understand when a lower end model like a Camry etc is made in the USA, but if you are paying a premium for something, I think it should come from Japan, Germany or in Cadillacs case, the United States.
Not that I would care, though. I'd have no issue buying a US built Lexus. Canada has been pumping out high quality RXs, so I don't see why the US can't put out a good quality Lexus too.
08-22-16, 01:25 PM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
08-22-16, 02:10 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
But, what would one say if they were to want to purchase a brand new 2018 Lexus LS500 and they found out they were built in the US or Canada? This owner was trading in their 07 LS460 and they were once owners of the LS400 and then LS430.
08-22-16, 02:42 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
One (likely) reason the Envision is being built in China is because of Buick's huge popularity there.
08-22-16, 02:53 PM
#41
Lexus Fanatic
Actually no, not a shame at all, considering Buick's popularity there. It is usually cheaper to produce a vehicle in or near its general market.
I'm not sure the UAW would agree with you. Besides, there's no credible reason that any Lexus product can't be built in the U.S. Americans spend lots of money on new and used Lexus products. Might as well (as I indicated in my last post, just above), build them here, in this big market. (As of now, though, RX production is still north of the border, in Canada)
You're buying a car, not a country. besides, Lexus products built here have been just as reliable as those produced in Japan.
Also, a big disappointment that Lexus is now building the ES and RX in the United States.
I can totally understand when a lower end model like a Camry etc is made in the USA, but if you are paying a premium for something, I think it should come from Japan, Germany or in Cadillacs case, the United States.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-22-16 at 02:56 PM.
08-23-16, 06:12 AM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
Poor reliability, huge incentives, poor resale value, mediocre interiors on some models and now "Made in China" is all the more reason to not buy GM.
If you could of buy the next generation Buick Verano, given the option. One Verano was made in the USA, one Verano was made in China, and one Verano was made in the Opel plant in Germany, all had the same MSRP....which one would you choose?
08-23-16, 06:39 AM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
What will be interesting to see, though, is if Trump wins this fall and somehow is able, either by legislation or executive order, to get that 35% tariff he wants on goods produced by American companies overseas and imported back into the U.S. That, if it passes, is going to wreak some havoc in the auto market.....and among some other industries as well.
Now as for the Cadillac CT6 Hybrid, that is a total complete insult that a car from Cadillac is going to be made in China.
Poor reliability, huge incentives, poor resale value, mediocre interiors on some models and now "Made in China" is all the more reason to not buy GM.
If you could of buy the next generation Buick Verano, given the option. One Verano was made in the USA, one Verano was made in China, and one Verano was made in the Opel plant in Germany, all had the same MSRP....which one would you choose?[/QUOTE]
08-23-16, 07:08 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
What will be interesting to see, though, is if Trump wins this fall and somehow is able, either by legislation or executive order, to get that 35% tariff he wants on goods produced by American companies overseas and imported back into the U.S. That, if it passes, is probably going to wreak havoc in the auto market.....and among some other industries as well.
Now as for the Cadillac CT6 Hybrid, that is a total complete insult that a car from Cadillac is going to be made in China.
Poor reliability, huge incentives, poor resale value, mediocre interiors on some models and now "Made in China" is all the more reason to not buy GM.
Poor reliability, huge incentives, poor resale value, mediocre interiors on some models and now "Made in China" is all the more reason to not buy GM.
Though I have never reviewed one personally, I agree, though, based on auto-press-reports, that depending on Chinese assembly plants for new cars might be rolling the dice a little. The Buick Envision, though, is now just reaching American showrooms.....the first mass-produced Chinese vehicle to be sold here. I'm going to take a look at one later this week, and inspect it very carefully to see how Chinese quality control compares to that which we've seen from other countries. (the worst-built modern car, BTW, that I ever reviewed, was actually a BMW from Germany...a new 2008 M3).
If you could of buy the next generation Buick Verano, given the option. One Verano was made in the USA, one Verano was made in China, and one Verano was made in the Opel plant in Germany, all had the same MSRP....which one would you choose?
So far, I've been well-pleased with my Michigan-built Verano, though all of the Opel-based Buicks (Verano, Cascada, Regal, Encore), regardless of where they are built, seem to be a noticeable step above the more traditionally American LaCrosse and Enclave in assembly-quality and solidness (that's just Opel quality). An all-new LaCrosse is coming next month, though, and we'll see how that does. I wouldn't necessarily rule out a Chinese-built Verano, but (as per my comments above about the new Envision), I'd check it over very carefully.....more so than usual.
08-23-16, 07:23 AM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Wait a minute. I didn't say I liked the fact that GM has chosen to build it there instead of here.....in fact, I don't. I'm all for American jobs and labor.....just as I'm sure you're for Canadian jobs and labor. But I can see where it makes sense from a business point of view, though....build where you expect to sell the most.
What will be interesting to see, though, is if Trump wins this fall and somehow is able, either by legislation or executive order, to get that 35% tariff he wants on goods produced by American companies overseas and imported back into the U.S. That, if it passes, is probably going to wreak havoc in the auto market.....and among some other industries as well.
A number of vehicles are made in China....not just GM. Most, if not all of them (up to now) have just not been exported here.
Though I have never reviewed one personally, I agree, though, based on auto-press-reports, that depending on Chinese assembly plants for new cars might be rolling the dice a little. The Buick Envision, though, is now just reaching American showrooms.....the first mass-produced Chinese vehicle to be sold here. I'm going to take a look at one later this week, and inspect it very carefully to see how Chinese quality control compares to that which we've seen from other countries. (the worst-built modern car, BTW, that I ever reviewed, was actually a BMW from Germany...a new 2008 M3).
First, I'll start by saying that if I could buy another Verano at all here in the U.S. (regardless of where it is built), GM would hear a lot less b**ching from me than it is going to LOL.
So far, I've been well-pleased with my Michigan-built Verano, though all of the Opel-based Buicks (Verano, Cascada, Regal, Encore), regardless of where they are built, seem to be a noticeable step above the more traditionally American LaCrosse and Enclave in assembly-quality and solidness (that's just Opel quality). An all-new LaCrosse is coming next month, though, and we'll see how that does. I wouldn't necessarily rule out a Chinese-built Verano, but (as per my comments above about the new Envision), I'd check it over very carefully.....more so than usual.
What will be interesting to see, though, is if Trump wins this fall and somehow is able, either by legislation or executive order, to get that 35% tariff he wants on goods produced by American companies overseas and imported back into the U.S. That, if it passes, is probably going to wreak havoc in the auto market.....and among some other industries as well.
A number of vehicles are made in China....not just GM. Most, if not all of them (up to now) have just not been exported here.
Though I have never reviewed one personally, I agree, though, based on auto-press-reports, that depending on Chinese assembly plants for new cars might be rolling the dice a little. The Buick Envision, though, is now just reaching American showrooms.....the first mass-produced Chinese vehicle to be sold here. I'm going to take a look at one later this week, and inspect it very carefully to see how Chinese quality control compares to that which we've seen from other countries. (the worst-built modern car, BTW, that I ever reviewed, was actually a BMW from Germany...a new 2008 M3).
First, I'll start by saying that if I could buy another Verano at all here in the U.S. (regardless of where it is built), GM would hear a lot less b**ching from me than it is going to LOL.
So far, I've been well-pleased with my Michigan-built Verano, though all of the Opel-based Buicks (Verano, Cascada, Regal, Encore), regardless of where they are built, seem to be a noticeable step above the more traditionally American LaCrosse and Enclave in assembly-quality and solidness (that's just Opel quality). An all-new LaCrosse is coming next month, though, and we'll see how that does. I wouldn't necessarily rule out a Chinese-built Verano, but (as per my comments above about the new Envision), I'd check it over very carefully.....more so than usual.