Toyota building new twin-turbo V6, to appear in GS, LS
07-25-16, 02:09 PM
#31
BEV will not happen unless people can recharge the car's giant battery in the same amt of time it takes to fill up a gas tank. Who wants to spend an hr or more to charge the battery every 3hrs of driving? One way is to standardize easily swap-able batteries like a flashlight and have battery swapping stations all over. Of course the quality of the battery has to be standardized too. Some Ikea quality batteries will not do.
BEV's work slightly differently from conventional ICE's.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ars-says-study
95% of all trips are under 30 miles.
98% of all trips are under 50 miles.
99% of all trips are under 70 miles.
Thus, BEV's rely on regular daily top ups like current day smart phones, rather than recharging just once per week like the credit card sized Nokias and Motorolas from 10-15 years ago.
In any case, the big battery capacity can deliver over 300 miles any way.
BEV's will suit most people, but they won't suit everyone.
If I need a 7 seater Sienna, or a truck like a Tacoma, or an off road vehicle like a Landcruiser, or needed a 600+ mile touring range - all just once a year, or once every several years - I'd just rent it.
The last time I travelled 600 miles a day was back in August 1994!
If I travelled long ranges more frequently, I'd go for a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle HFCV.
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Last edited by peteharvey; 07-25-16 at 02:27 PM.
07-25-16, 03:17 PM
#32
Lexus Fanatic
exactly, i've gotten very spoiled from having such a good V8 to use, anything less just wont do! instant grunt when you want it, incredibly smooth and linear power delivery, and the sound just can't be beat. and if i go into full-on hypermiling mode the mpgs are pretty decent too. under ideal conditions my LS still gets like 30 mpg at like 70 mph... and even if it wasn't so efficient, the LS is an $85,000 car that will be sold in relatively low numbers. the environmental impact from the LS is so small in the grand scheme of things i think they can get away with keeping a V8 under there. just make it a "smart" V8 with cylinder deactivation, maybe incorporate toyota's valvematic technology that's used in the corolla of all things and it really wouldn't be the polar bear crushing gas guzzler everyone's afraid of.
07-25-16, 03:28 PM
#33
Lead Lap
its more complicated than that unfortunately. It's not CAFE standards, Lexus doesn't really have to worry about that because they have Toyota. In other parts of the world they can't sell the non hybrid LS because it doesn't hit fuel economy targets. Also, there's a demand for better economy. That's why they have base V6 power in these cars.
07-25-16, 03:34 PM
#34
Yes, twin turbo V8's are great for LS; better in LS than GS.
Because LS is bigger and heavier than GS, so LS has the body weight to balance out the extra weight of the V8.
In the GS, the V8 makes the GS very "nose heavy" on slalom and skid pan tests at the limit.
However, the twin turbo V8 is genuinely smoother than the twin turbo V6, but both small capacity twin turbos will rev more smoothly and quietly than their larger capacity atmospheric counterparts with much more rotating mass, hence more vibration and harshness.
Because LS is bigger and heavier than GS, so LS has the body weight to balance out the extra weight of the V8.
In the GS, the V8 makes the GS very "nose heavy" on slalom and skid pan tests at the limit.
However, the twin turbo V8 is genuinely smoother than the twin turbo V6, but both small capacity twin turbos will rev more smoothly and quietly than their larger capacity atmospheric counterparts with much more rotating mass, hence more vibration and harshness.
07-25-16, 05:18 PM
#35
would love a 3.5L Inline 6 my interpretation of a 3JZ
Yes, but... I'm afraid that when they designed the JZ (25 years ago!!) they had no idea how successful it would be. This is more common than we suspect: there is only so much a computer can predict, and on paper the 2JZ-GTE doesn't look that special.
Even re-sizing it by lengthening the block, crank, head and cams (increasing the bore pitch by 7mm?), and opening the bore to 92.5mm (and keep the 86mm stroke length) for 3,468cc doesn't guarantee that the results will scale up. This will only increase the engine length by (about) 1.4".
This means that the R&D can't translate into a front-drive platform, so the cost has to be absorbed entirely by cars with long engine bays.
Yes, but... I'm afraid that when they designed the JZ (25 years ago!!) they had no idea how successful it would be. This is more common than we suspect: there is only so much a computer can predict, and on paper the 2JZ-GTE doesn't look that special.
Even re-sizing it by lengthening the block, crank, head and cams (increasing the bore pitch by 7mm?), and opening the bore to 92.5mm (and keep the 86mm stroke length) for 3,468cc doesn't guarantee that the results will scale up. This will only increase the engine length by (about) 1.4".
This means that the R&D can't translate into a front-drive platform, so the cost has to be absorbed entirely by cars with long engine bays.
07-25-16, 08:15 PM
#37
^^ I would not be surprised if the 400 hp / 325 lb-ft 3.0L V6 twin turbo engine detailed at the beginning of this thread actually started from that TS050 engine and Toyota's TMG engineering arm in Germany. Just my speculation but I'd be excited to read confirmation of that.
If Toyota's upcoming 3.0L V6 TT is meant to work in the new Supra as well as a few Lexus models I would fully expect them to have developed it from a racing program... or at least in conjunction with one.
What I recall reading some time ago was that the 2JZ-GTE engine evolved from the 1JZ-GTE design being worked over by Toyota and then Yamaha and also a German engineering firm (for the 2JZ-GTE cylinder head; Yamaha designed the 1JZ-GTE cylinder head). Then Hitachi co-developed the sequential turbo system and Getrag was called on for the manual transmission.
For the Supra at least they had better offer a manual transmission.
If Toyota's upcoming 3.0L V6 TT is meant to work in the new Supra as well as a few Lexus models I would fully expect them to have developed it from a racing program... or at least in conjunction with one.
What I recall reading some time ago was that the 2JZ-GTE engine evolved from the 1JZ-GTE design being worked over by Toyota and then Yamaha and also a German engineering firm (for the 2JZ-GTE cylinder head; Yamaha designed the 1JZ-GTE cylinder head). Then Hitachi co-developed the sequential turbo system and Getrag was called on for the manual transmission.
For the Supra at least they had better offer a manual transmission.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 07-25-16 at 08:22 PM.
07-26-16, 07:08 PM
#39
Lexus Test Driver
Yes 2 decades and counting.....
Lexus bet on Hybrids which was the wrong bet and complete failure.
Lexus just stopped engineering their regular Engines for a decade basically - their V6 and V8 are just so outdated.
The V6 turbo is just now being developed, it will be prob another 1-2yrs before it makes it into any production cars/suvs. The V8 turbo has not even been mentioned so far LOL. Maybe in 10 years - the new F cars will get a turbo V8 finally.
Also MB and Jag are moving to 3.0 inline 6 turbo engines as they are much better than V6 layout.
Lexus bet on Hybrids which was the wrong bet and complete failure.
Lexus just stopped engineering their regular Engines for a decade basically - their V6 and V8 are just so outdated.
The V6 turbo is just now being developed, it will be prob another 1-2yrs before it makes it into any production cars/suvs. The V8 turbo has not even been mentioned so far LOL. Maybe in 10 years - the new F cars will get a turbo V8 finally.
Also MB and Jag are moving to 3.0 inline 6 turbo engines as they are much better than V6 layout.
Last edited by RNM GS3; 07-26-16 at 07:13 PM.
07-26-16, 07:22 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
So Lexus has been behind on engines since the first LS400 refresh? I think that's a little severe. They're probably about 5 years behind.
07-26-16, 07:54 PM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
Look at the portfolio of engine options from MB, BMW, Audi - it is staggering.
07-26-16, 08:09 PM
#42
07-26-16, 08:21 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by RNM GS3
I'm not counting back to 1996........They are working on their FIRST TURBO 6cyl, its not even out yet. By the time it is out the other Automakers will be coming out with new engines as well which will probably be much more advanced as they would be on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th Gen of FI 6cyl engines!
Look at the portfolio of engine options from MB, BMW, Audi - it is staggering.
Look at the portfolio of engine options from MB, BMW, Audi - it is staggering.
07-26-16, 09:12 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
The last new V6 was introduced back in 2006, development started probably early 2000s.
This new V6 turbo will come in 2018-2019 probably - well folks thats about 2 full decades.
07-26-16, 09:17 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
in any event, I don't really understand why an engine has to be turbo to be modern"? I've never owned a car with a turbo, and I've owned a lot of modern cars.
