Consumer Reports vs Tesla Autopilot
07-14-16, 10:28 AM
#1
Consumer Reports vs Tesla Autopilot
Consumer Reports wants Tesla to change Autopilot name, function, Just saying it's 'beta' isn't good enough, CR says
The pressure against Tesla's Autopilot feature has been mounting since it was revealed that Tesla Model S owner Joshua Brown died while using the autonomous driving technology. Both the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Securities and Exchange Commission have opened investigations. Today, Consumer Reports called for Tesla to disable the Autosteer function in its vehicles until it can be reprogrammed to require drivers to keep their hands on the wheel.
Autosteer is part of the Autopilot system. The Autopilot system is labeled as a beta, though Tesla CEO Elon Musk claims that the word "beta" isn't used in the traditional sense. He says it's there to remind drivers that the system isn't perfect. Musk claims that Tesla will need one billion miles of Autopilot data to remove the beta label.
Because of the disconnect between what the name implies and what some owners take away, Consumer Reports is asking that Tesla rename Autopilot with something more descriptive and accurate. It wants Tesla to issue clearer guidance on what the system does and how it functions. Finally, it wants Tesla to remove any beta systems from their vehicles. The publication says that consumers shouldn't be public test beds for new technologies like Autopilot.
The publication says that the name Autopilot, despite the beta label, gives drivers a false sense of security. In a response to Consumer Reports, Tesla said that it won't be changing anything. It says that internal and real-world testing has proven that the system works and that speculation by the media will not influence their decisions. Musk has said that Tesla will not be removing the Autopilot feature.
Consumer Reports has had a long and arduous history with Tesla. The publication has owned three Teslas and has had quite a few problems with reliability. Tesla's response will obviously do nothing to improve its reputation within the testing organization.
Despite Musk and Tesla continuously defending their product, there seems to be a wide divide between what the company is claiming and what consumers are understanding. If it labels the system as "beta," consumers should expect the word is used in the traditional sense, not as a simple warning. It doesn't matter how much Tesla and Musk defend themselves if there is still not a proper understanding between the company and its customers.
There is also a risk that the company's eagerness to release its products before they're fully baked will hurt other automakers attempting to bring autonomous vehicles to the market. If there is a sense of distrust in consumers, adoption may be slow. If there are more incidents involving injury or death, the government may step in and slow the rate of introduction.
Autosteer is part of the Autopilot system. The Autopilot system is labeled as a beta, though Tesla CEO Elon Musk claims that the word "beta" isn't used in the traditional sense. He says it's there to remind drivers that the system isn't perfect. Musk claims that Tesla will need one billion miles of Autopilot data to remove the beta label.
Because of the disconnect between what the name implies and what some owners take away, Consumer Reports is asking that Tesla rename Autopilot with something more descriptive and accurate. It wants Tesla to issue clearer guidance on what the system does and how it functions. Finally, it wants Tesla to remove any beta systems from their vehicles. The publication says that consumers shouldn't be public test beds for new technologies like Autopilot.
The publication says that the name Autopilot, despite the beta label, gives drivers a false sense of security. In a response to Consumer Reports, Tesla said that it won't be changing anything. It says that internal and real-world testing has proven that the system works and that speculation by the media will not influence their decisions. Musk has said that Tesla will not be removing the Autopilot feature.
Consumer Reports has had a long and arduous history with Tesla. The publication has owned three Teslas and has had quite a few problems with reliability. Tesla's response will obviously do nothing to improve its reputation within the testing organization.
Despite Musk and Tesla continuously defending their product, there seems to be a wide divide between what the company is claiming and what consumers are understanding. If it labels the system as "beta," consumers should expect the word is used in the traditional sense, not as a simple warning. It doesn't matter how much Tesla and Musk defend themselves if there is still not a proper understanding between the company and its customers.
There is also a risk that the company's eagerness to release its products before they're fully baked will hurt other automakers attempting to bring autonomous vehicles to the market. If there is a sense of distrust in consumers, adoption may be slow. If there are more incidents involving injury or death, the government may step in and slow the rate of introduction.
07-14-16, 05:32 PM
#3
Lexus Champion
Consumer Reports wants Tesla to change Autopilot name, function, Just saying it's 'beta' isn't good enough, CR says
Source
Agreed! In the information technology (IT) world, beta is software that is not quite ready for production use but is seen to be "stable" enough to go out for user testing.But, as a safety-critical systems engineer, I could never agree to sending safety-critical systems and software out to be tested by unqualified testers. Aircraft safety-critical systems are tested by highly qualified and highly-experienced test pilots before being approved (and then perhaps only a conditional approval, with usage limitations) by customers. Automotive safety systems -- and autonomous driving systems are the ultimate automotive safety-critical system -- should follow a similar testing and certification/approval process before use by customers.
07-14-16, 06:02 PM
#4
Lexus Champion
Agreed! In the information technology (IT) world, beta is software that is not quite ready for production use but is seen to be "stable" enough to go out for user testing.But, as a safety-critical systems engineer, I could never agree to sending safety-critical systems and software out to be tested by unqualified testers. Aircraft safety-critical systems are tested by highly qualified and highly-experienced test pilots before being approved (and then perhaps only a conditional approval, with usage limitations) by customers. Automotive safety systems -- and autonomous driving systems are the ultimate automotive safety-critical system -- should follow a similar testing and certification/approval process before use by customers.
But aviation also created a whole lot of carnage with automation errors, and materials issues de jour. Before engineers figured out how toxic the seats and interior materials in modern jet aircraft were, a lot of people survived the crash but died at the scene because of the toxicity of what they were breathing after the plane caught fire.
Between human factors, material design and system errors - aviation killed a lot of people. The reason Tesla is in the spotlight is because it's a "halo" brand and one operator was misbehaving and got himself killed. I agree with CR. With this type of buyer group, you should never tell them that they have a "self driving autopilot car".
It's certainly not an iPad on wheels with Siri as your driving buddy.
07-15-16, 04:37 PM
#6
Lexus Champion
But aviation also created a whole lot of carnage with automation errors, and materials issues de jour. Before engineers figured out how toxic the seats and interior materials in modern jet aircraft were, a lot of people survived the crash but died at the scene because of the toxicity of what they were breathing after the plane caught fire.
But now we know much more, so much so that it should be common sense by now that we do not leave the testing of safety-critical systems (where the failure of the system could be catastrophic and fatal) to untrained, inexperienced, dumb drivers.
I parked beside a car today, in the mid-summer heat (~30deg Celcius / 86deg Fahrenheit), that still had snow tires installed. If a driver cannot feel the difference -- or care -- about snow tires in the heat of summer, can you trust them to test an autonomous driving system?
07-15-16, 05:18 PM
#7
Lead Lap
But that was because we did not know what we did not know. We did not know how poorly some of those materials (seats and wiring insulation) would perform when burning. We also learned from aircraft seat design but that was before we knew how seat frames would deform in a crash (and that was also before computer-aided design).
But now we know much more, so much so that it should be common sense by now that we do not leave the testing of safety-critical systems (where the failure of the system could be catastrophic and fatal) to untrained, inexperienced, dumb drivers.
I parked beside a car today, in the mid-summer heat (~30deg Celcius / 86deg Fahrenheit), that still had snow tires installed. If a driver cannot feel the difference -- or care -- about snow tires in the heat of summer, can you trust them to test an autonomous driving system?
But now we know much more, so much so that it should be common sense by now that we do not leave the testing of safety-critical systems (where the failure of the system could be catastrophic and fatal) to untrained, inexperienced, dumb drivers.
I parked beside a car today, in the mid-summer heat (~30deg Celcius / 86deg Fahrenheit), that still had snow tires installed. If a driver cannot feel the difference -- or care -- about snow tires in the heat of summer, can you trust them to test an autonomous driving system?
Consumer reports can go shove there request where the sun dont shine
Love
Elon
Love
Elon
The only way Elon Musk will really give a crap, is if the money that powers tesla is directly hurt. aka Consumer reports decides hold a huge stock of the company. Otherwise, like fortune found out recently, Elon will just twitter block you and move on with his plans.
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07-15-16, 05:30 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
See Consumer reports only can only influence the customers of economy brands, and their well to do cousins in the luxury segment. The customer base, at least until the model 3 arrives, have quite the deep pockets, and care more about what new blazing tech that the car offers then some geekazoid with glasses, a montone whiny voice, and a his subscription based friends.
The only way Elon Musk will really give a crap, is if the money that powers tesla is directly hurt. aka Consumer reports decides hold a huge stock of the company. Otherwise, like fortune found out recently, Elon will just twitter block you and move on with his plans.
The only way Elon Musk will really give a crap, is if the money that powers tesla is directly hurt. aka Consumer reports decides hold a huge stock of the company. Otherwise, like fortune found out recently, Elon will just twitter block you and move on with his plans.
I read that the German authorities would not have approved the Tesla Autopilot feature if the software is still in beta test mode. But it was first approved in the Netherlands, and since both countries are in the EU, approval then applies to other EU countries.
07-15-16, 05:48 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
But that was because we did not know what we did not know. We did not know how poorly some of those materials (seats and wiring insulation) would perform when burning. We also learned from aircraft seat design but that was before we knew how seat frames would deform in a crash (and that was also before computer-aided design).
But now we know much more, so much so that it should be common sense by now that we do not leave the testing of safety-critical systems (where the failure of the system could be catastrophic and fatal) to untrained, inexperienced, dumb drivers.
I parked beside a car today, in the mid-summer heat (~30deg Celcius / 86deg Fahrenheit), that still had snow tires installed. If a driver cannot feel the difference -- or care -- about snow tires in the heat of summer, can you trust them to test an autonomous driving system?
But now we know much more, so much so that it should be common sense by now that we do not leave the testing of safety-critical systems (where the failure of the system could be catastrophic and fatal) to untrained, inexperienced, dumb drivers.
I parked beside a car today, in the mid-summer heat (~30deg Celcius / 86deg Fahrenheit), that still had snow tires installed. If a driver cannot feel the difference -- or care -- about snow tires in the heat of summer, can you trust them to test an autonomous driving system?
I didn't notice as much of a difference as you might think, but I was being very careful and those particular tires are performance tires.
With aviation it's a case of one mistake means a lot of lives lost. Tesla is so far, one case. When an aircraft crashed - it was many, many lives lost - not just one or five or a six. A beta mistake at Tesla is not going to kill 200 - 300 people.
But I do agree that Tesla and others should always assume the worst and engineer with as many eventualities in mind. It also means your consumer base and its popular press complain about how dumbed down your tech is.
07-15-16, 06:12 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
Consumer Reports? Bleh. Tesla has a heck of a lot more autonomous driving data than any other manufacturer yet even they can screw up. The driver has to realize that he or she is still ultimately in control, that Autopilot is just an advanced form of cruise control.
Autopilot on the latest planes is far from infallible and the pilot is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. Just look at the AF447 crash - the autopilot disengaged after a sensor anomaly and the pilot who took control stalled the plane into the sea.
Autopilot on the latest planes is far from infallible and the pilot is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. Just look at the AF447 crash - the autopilot disengaged after a sensor anomaly and the pilot who took control stalled the plane into the sea.
07-16-16, 11:29 AM
#11
Lexus Champion
Consumer Reports? Bleh. Tesla has a heck of a lot more autonomous driving data than any other manufacturer yet even they can screw up. The driver has to realize that he or she is still ultimately in control, that Autopilot is just an advanced form of cruise control.
Autopilot on the latest planes is far from infallible and the pilot is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. Just look at the AF447 crash - the autopilot disengaged after a sensor anomaly and the pilot who took control stalled the plane into the sea.
Autopilot on the latest planes is far from infallible and the pilot is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. Just look at the AF447 crash - the autopilot disengaged after a sensor anomaly and the pilot who took control stalled the plane into the sea.
Everyday, dumb commuter drivers are not highly trained. In fact, they may not be trained at all, other than Dad letting them drive around a bit before taking their test at age 16; they certainly have NOT been trained to drive with and without autonomous driving aids. Because of that, autonomous driving systems should be designed and built to an even higher standard to make them as idiot-proof as possible.
07-16-16, 10:01 PM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
07-16-16, 10:02 PM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
man that model x looks so jacked up and stupid.
