New 2016 Buick Envision SUV Proves Disappointing
#31
Lexus Fanatic
CR doesn't just base their views on others. They hire a whole staff of people with automobile engineering degrees.
#32
Lexus Champion
So, while CR reviews may be more honest, reviews by Autoblog are more popular (and likely to be more frequently quoted).
#33
Lexus Fanatic
Speaking as an engineer myself, I appreciate the understanding of technology and the technological honesty that is evident in reviews by engineers, especially when compared to the "bull**** baffles brains" that comes out of some of the non-engineer reviewers. But, in my experience, the non-technologically-oriented sometimes do not understand -- and so may ignore -- what the engineers try to explain.
So, while CR reviews may be more honest, reviews by Autoblog are more popular (and likely to be more frequently quoted).
#34
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
let's get back to the buick and not reviews of CR and other reviews, thanks.
#35
Lexus Champion
Anyway, I find the initial sales strategy curious. Introduce the most expensive versions first. Does Buick really think that their vehicle is so compelling that people not willing to spend $45k+ on a Buick will sit back and delay their vehicle purchase until the version that is right from them comes to the US market? That could work for, say, a Miata, but I don't see it working for this car.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 07-12-16 at 12:27 PM.
#36
Lexus Fanatic
Anyway, I find the initial sales strategy curious. Introduce the most expensive versions first. Does Buick really think that their vehicle is so compelling that people not willing to spend $45k+ on a Buick will sit back and delay their vehicle purchase until the version that is right from them comes to the US market? That could work for, say, a Miata, but I don't see it working for this car.
Actually, if you remember far enough back (the summer of 1989) to when the Miata was introduced, technically, it didn't really work for the Miata, either. That's because if the factory wasn't shipping the most expensive versions, the dealers themselves were price-gouging on the Miata's enormous initial demand and short supply. So, you paid an arm and a leg either way. There was one local dealership at the time that said they were selling Miatas at list price, with no markup, but I didn't actually see much evidence of it.
You do have one point, though, on the Envision. The Miata, at the time, didn't have any real American-market competitors...the Honda S2000 had not yet been released, and the open-top British sports cars/roadsters were no longer available. In contrast, the Envision is being released right into what is already literally a marketful of competitors.....with even more competitors to come.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 07-12-16 at 12:28 PM.
#37
Lexus Champion
Actually, if you remember far enough back (the summer of 1989) to when the Miata was introduced, technically, it didn't really work for the Miata, either. That's because if the factory wasn't shipping the most expensive versions, the dealers themselves were price-gouging on the Miata's enormous initial demand and short supply. So, you paid an arm and a leg either way. There was one local dealership at the time that said they were selling Miatas at list price, with no markup, but I didn't actually see much evidence of it.
You do have one point, though, on the Envision. The Miata, at the time, didn't have any real American-market competitors...the Honda S2000 had not yet been released, and the open-top British sports cars/roadsters were no longer available. In contrast, the Envision is being released right into what is already literally a marketful of competitors.....with even more competitors to come.
You do have one point, though, on the Envision. The Miata, at the time, didn't have any real American-market competitors...the Honda S2000 had not yet been released, and the open-top British sports cars/roadsters were no longer available. In contrast, the Envision is being released right into what is already literally a marketful of competitors.....with even more competitors to come.
#38
Lexus Champion
As mmarshall said, they could have rebadged the Equinox or Terrain platforms to recover any lost sales from Buick loyalists instead of importing what is a made-in-China, sell-in-China vehicle.
But the cost advantage from building in China must be significant enough to make it profitable, although it's certainly not reflected in any sort of price-undercutting. That could be due to not wanting to "cheapen" the image of your product by setting too low a price.
According to the Wiki entry on the Envision, they've been building it there since 2014 and GM didn't want the costs associated with starting a whole new assembly line in the States vs just expanding GM Shanghai production.
But the cost advantage from building in China must be significant enough to make it profitable, although it's certainly not reflected in any sort of price-undercutting. That could be due to not wanting to "cheapen" the image of your product by setting too low a price.
According to the Wiki entry on the Envision, they've been building it there since 2014 and GM didn't want the costs associated with starting a whole new assembly line in the States vs just expanding GM Shanghai production.
#39
Lexus Champion
But the cost advantage from building in China must be significant enough to make it profitable, although it's certainly not reflected in any sort of price-undercutting. That could be due to not wanting to "cheapen" the image of your product by setting too low a price.
According to the Wiki entry on the Envision, they've been building it there since 2014 and GM didn't want the costs associated with starting a whole new assembly line in the States vs just expanding GM Shanghai production.
According to the Wiki entry on the Envision, they've been building it there since 2014 and GM didn't want the costs associated with starting a whole new assembly line in the States vs just expanding GM Shanghai production.
GM seems to do this, which is to start production of new models overseas and import to North America for some time before the North American assembly line is ready. This was done for the Cruze, which was imported from South Korea (as I recall) before production started here. It was also done with the current-gen Regal, which was imported from Germany until production started in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
#40
Lexus Champion
I read that the next-gen Equinox and Terrain will migrate to the same D2XX/D2UX platform of the Envision.
If GM didn't want the costs associated with assembling the Envision in North America, they must not plan on selling enough to keep an assembly line going... or they could just be waiting until the next-gen Equinox / Terrain are ready, at which time, all 3 could be built on the same line.
GM seems to do this, which is to start production of new models overseas and import to North America for some time before the North American assembly line is ready. This was done for the Cruze, which was imported from South Korea (as I recall) before production started here. It was also done with the current-gen Regal, which was imported from Germany until production started in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
If GM didn't want the costs associated with assembling the Envision in North America, they must not plan on selling enough to keep an assembly line going... or they could just be waiting until the next-gen Equinox / Terrain are ready, at which time, all 3 could be built on the same line.
GM seems to do this, which is to start production of new models overseas and import to North America for some time before the North American assembly line is ready. This was done for the Cruze, which was imported from South Korea (as I recall) before production started here. It was also done with the current-gen Regal, which was imported from Germany until production started in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
Not many people object to underpaid, over-worked Chinese workers manufacturing their iPads or iPhones. Sales have soared and profits are ridiculous.
Traditionally American and Canadian domestic car buyers feel brand loyalty and patriotism as a factor in buying a Big Three vehicle. Maybe times are changing. If this test works out you'll see more than the Envision being made in China.
#41
I wouldn't spend $40,000 on a new car made in China, be it a Volvo, Buick, Toyota, or whatever. Getting parts for this car down the road will be a real PITA if not impossible.
#42
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
#43
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
just go to walmart.
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
GM seems to do this, which is to start production of new models overseas and import to North America for some time before the North American assembly line is ready. This was done for the Cruze, which was imported from South Korea (as I recall) before production started here. It was also done with the current-gen Regal, which was imported from Germany until production started in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
If I was to pay a premium for a Toyota (Lexus), MB, BMW, or Audi, I would sure want it to come from the homeland, ie: Japan or Germany.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-13-16 at 09:25 AM.