2017 Nissan Pathfinder
07-10-16, 08:32 AM
#31
Well,
1. a Toyota Sienna has the same size footprint as a Toyota Sequioa, so for some people they would not want such a large vehicle. The track is 4 inches wider than a 4Runner and a Honda Odyssey is wider than the Sequioa.
2. A Toyota Sienna also has a payload capacity of 1100lbs, load up 5 adults (or seven) and where does all of the gear go. Compared to a Toyota 4Runner which has a 1625 lbs payload
and you can see why some might need or want a 4Runner. That is 525 more lbs of extra payload that the 4Runner offers.
3. Combined MPG of an AWD Sienna is just 1 mpg better than the combined MPG of a 4X4 4Runner. Both weight 4700 lbs give or take a few.
There are some compelling reasons as to why someone would want and SUV over a minivan.
1. a Toyota Sienna has the same size footprint as a Toyota Sequioa, so for some people they would not want such a large vehicle. The track is 4 inches wider than a 4Runner and a Honda Odyssey is wider than the Sequioa.
2. A Toyota Sienna also has a payload capacity of 1100lbs, load up 5 adults (or seven) and where does all of the gear go. Compared to a Toyota 4Runner which has a 1625 lbs payload
and you can see why some might need or want a 4Runner. That is 525 more lbs of extra payload that the 4Runner offers.
3. Combined MPG of an AWD Sienna is just 1 mpg better than the combined MPG of a 4X4 4Runner. Both weight 4700 lbs give or take a few.
There are some compelling reasons as to why someone would want and SUV over a minivan.
I was asking about these cheap, unibody wannabe suvs like the Nissan listed in the OP. Please read my post again.
07-10-16, 09:37 AM
#33
Lexus Fanatic
I think you completely missed my point. I never asked why someone would want an SUV over a minivan. A 4Runner is a real BOF suv with the advantages you listed. The differences in that are clear vs a minivan.
I was asking about these cheap, unibody wannabe suvs like the Nissan listed in the OP. Please read my post again.
I was asking about these cheap, unibody wannabe suvs like the Nissan listed in the OP. Please read my post again.
The small cheap unibody SUVs are considered by a lot of people becuase they are cheaper, smaller, easier to live with than a large minivan that has the footprint of a Toyota Sequoia.
07-10-16, 10:01 AM
#34
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07-10-16, 10:31 AM
#35
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I do not understand why people bother purchasing cars like this Pathfinder or Chevy Traverse.
Why not just set your "ego" aside and buy a minivan like a Sienna or Odyssey?
These so called SUVs are essentially glorified minivans with slightly bigger tires, but a crapload less practical, horrible cargo room compared to a minivan and worse gas mileage. You cannot take this pile offroad unless offroad to you means parking it on the grass for a baseball game barbecue.
If I am getting an SUV and I am sacrificing the gas mileage and cargo room vs a minivan, I will make sure it's something that's got an aftermarket support for offroading, otherwise, why do it at all? It's gotta be a real BOF platform, no exceptions. Can probably narrow it down to 2 vehicles, 4Runner/Landcruiser or their Lexus brothers. Wranglers are cool too but they are so slow and cheaply built/unreliable in comparison.
Why not just set your "ego" aside and buy a minivan like a Sienna or Odyssey?
These so called SUVs are essentially glorified minivans with slightly bigger tires, but a crapload less practical, horrible cargo room compared to a minivan and worse gas mileage. You cannot take this pile offroad unless offroad to you means parking it on the grass for a baseball game barbecue.
If I am getting an SUV and I am sacrificing the gas mileage and cargo room vs a minivan, I will make sure it's something that's got an aftermarket support for offroading, otherwise, why do it at all? It's gotta be a real BOF platform, no exceptions. Can probably narrow it down to 2 vehicles, 4Runner/Landcruiser or their Lexus brothers. Wranglers are cool too but they are so slow and cheaply built/unreliable in comparison.
- Most people don't want an SUV that drives like a truck, but are still drawn to the other characteristics of an SUV.
- Not wanting a minivan isn't just about ego. Most people just don't like them. Would you spend a lot of money on a car you didn't really like? The only people who "need" a minivan are families of 6 or more. Those aren't too common.
- Crossovers appeal because they are a blend of a lot of things people want. Not hard to understand the appeal of a car that is rugged, yet refined, high seating position, AWD, high ground clearance, more space than BOF SUV, and packaged in an attractive design people want.
I'm a family of four. When I look at Toyota as a good example I could see my choices as Highlander, 4Runner, or Sienna (in this general size class). I'm going with Highlander all day long. You can see the Highlander as a blend of 4Runner and Sienna in function which is exactly the point and is why it works and why it is the hottest segment. Most people don't need a true off roader so why buy one with all of their compromises? But we do want AWD and ground clearance for lots of snow and rough roads.
Doesn't seem too hard understand.
Last edited by -J-P-L-; 07-10-16 at 10:35 AM.
07-10-16, 10:50 AM
#36
You're arguing against the hottest segment in the industry. You fail to understand the reason people love crossovers and that's fine if they don't appeal to you and that's why different segments exist.
- Most people don't want an SUV that drives like a truck, but are still drawn to the other characteristics of an SUV.
- Not wanting a minivan isn't just about ego. Most people just don't like them. Would you spend a lot of money on a car you didn't really like? The only people who "need" a minivan are families of 6 or more. Those aren't too common.
- Crossovers appeal because they are a blend of a lot of things people want. Not hard to understand the appeal of a car that is rugged, yet refined, high seating position, AWD, high ground clearance, more space than BOF SUV, and packaged in an attractive design people want.
I'm a family of four. When I look at Toyota as a good example I could see my choices as Highlander, 4Runner, or Sienna (in this general size class). I'm going with Highlander all day long. You can see the Highlander as a blend of 4Runner and Sienna in function which is exactly the point and is why it works and why it is the hottest segment. Most people don't need a true off roader so why buy one with all of their compromises? But we do want AWD and ground clearance for lots of snow and rough roads.
Doesn't seem too hard understand.
- Most people don't want an SUV that drives like a truck, but are still drawn to the other characteristics of an SUV.
- Not wanting a minivan isn't just about ego. Most people just don't like them. Would you spend a lot of money on a car you didn't really like? The only people who "need" a minivan are families of 6 or more. Those aren't too common.
- Crossovers appeal because they are a blend of a lot of things people want. Not hard to understand the appeal of a car that is rugged, yet refined, high seating position, AWD, high ground clearance, more space than BOF SUV, and packaged in an attractive design people want.
I'm a family of four. When I look at Toyota as a good example I could see my choices as Highlander, 4Runner, or Sienna (in this general size class). I'm going with Highlander all day long. You can see the Highlander as a blend of 4Runner and Sienna in function which is exactly the point and is why it works and why it is the hottest segment. Most people don't need a true off roader so why buy one with all of their compromises? But we do want AWD and ground clearance for lots of snow and rough roads.
Doesn't seem too hard understand.
I've driven many small crossovers, to me, it's not an ounce easier to drive than a Sienna. If anything, it's more difficult with their typically smaller side windows and bigger blind spots. I highly doubt one person drove a Sienna or any other minivan and did not purchase it because it was too large and difficult to drive over something like a pathfinder or Highlander.
Also your argument about only needing a minivan if you have a large family is not correct. I know plenty of people that don't have 5 kids in the family that would go with a minivan any day of the week over some suv-wannabe Pathfinder. Cargo room and ride quality being on the top of the list.
07-10-16, 11:15 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
As someone who has a young family and just went through the painful process of replacing my SUV with a minivan, considering all the three row crossovers, and specifically the Pathfinder and QX60 I think my viewpoint has value here.
First off I like the refresh of both the Pathfinder and QX60, which are my favorite vehicles in that segment when it comes to transporting people.
After our twins were born I made the very painful decision to trade our Jeep Grand Cherokee which I loved and had only had barely a year on a bigger vehicle. We needed room for two rear facing carseats behind us and wanted to be able to also take a family member with us places, we needed more cargo room than the Jeep had also.
So we set out and drove everything in the segment, including all the minivans. Ultimately we chose a minivan, and specifically the Sedona because for us it provided the maximum utility. Sliding doors were a huge part of that, as well as available cargo space with the third row folded and open (minivans are a huge upgrade there). But, its not a vehicle I could ever be passionate about. I have no desire to drive it...its simply a family transportation tool. Thats all well and good, but as a car enthusiast who enjoys having cars that he likes driving, and looking at, and owning...it definitely leaves a void. I'm fortunate that I can have another great car that I do enjoy having, but not everyone is in that position. Just got the Sedona washed yesterday (I only get it washed every 4-6 weeks, just don't care enough to do it any more than that), and...its a very valuable tool thats now clean...lets put it this way. Kind of like cleaning my stove.
I can 100% understand why someone would purchase one of these over a minivan. Yes, style is part of it...but style is part of all the purchase decisions we mke. Do you buy ugly clothes? An ugly house? Ugly shoes? Minivans are on the whole ugly, IMHO. They're big boxes with short hoods, wheels look small in small openings against a big body. I bought what IMHO was the least ugly one...but I wouldn't call it pretty.
Often their interiors aren't very nicely made, cheap plastics, exterior trim isn't great. They don't ride that well, they're loud inside compared to a 3 row crossover (more interior volume=louder), sound systems aren't as strong with the interior volume, etc. As was said only the Sienna is available in AWD, so weather travel is a concern. The driving position is very different. They're upright, generally with no console (one reason we got the Sedona was the console which we prefer from our car and SUV ownership, and better interior styling and materials than the competition. A 3 row crossover feels much more like a car, with a molded floorpan, less upright seating position, etc. That package to me is immeasurably more attractive as a vehicle that I would enjoy owning and driving.
The minivan for us is a necessary tool at this stage in our family's lives. But, you better believe when the kids can get themselves in and out of the car, we don't need strollers anymore...the minivan will be replaced with a 3 row crossover. Immediately. The lease is up on the Sedona in just under 2 years. We'll probably lease another minivan for 3 years, then after that the kids will be 6, and we'll get back into an SUV/Crossover.
First off I like the refresh of both the Pathfinder and QX60, which are my favorite vehicles in that segment when it comes to transporting people.
After our twins were born I made the very painful decision to trade our Jeep Grand Cherokee which I loved and had only had barely a year on a bigger vehicle. We needed room for two rear facing carseats behind us and wanted to be able to also take a family member with us places, we needed more cargo room than the Jeep had also.
So we set out and drove everything in the segment, including all the minivans. Ultimately we chose a minivan, and specifically the Sedona because for us it provided the maximum utility. Sliding doors were a huge part of that, as well as available cargo space with the third row folded and open (minivans are a huge upgrade there). But, its not a vehicle I could ever be passionate about. I have no desire to drive it...its simply a family transportation tool. Thats all well and good, but as a car enthusiast who enjoys having cars that he likes driving, and looking at, and owning...it definitely leaves a void. I'm fortunate that I can have another great car that I do enjoy having, but not everyone is in that position. Just got the Sedona washed yesterday (I only get it washed every 4-6 weeks, just don't care enough to do it any more than that), and...its a very valuable tool thats now clean...lets put it this way. Kind of like cleaning my stove.
I can 100% understand why someone would purchase one of these over a minivan. Yes, style is part of it...but style is part of all the purchase decisions we mke. Do you buy ugly clothes? An ugly house? Ugly shoes? Minivans are on the whole ugly, IMHO. They're big boxes with short hoods, wheels look small in small openings against a big body. I bought what IMHO was the least ugly one...but I wouldn't call it pretty.
Often their interiors aren't very nicely made, cheap plastics, exterior trim isn't great. They don't ride that well, they're loud inside compared to a 3 row crossover (more interior volume=louder), sound systems aren't as strong with the interior volume, etc. As was said only the Sienna is available in AWD, so weather travel is a concern. The driving position is very different. They're upright, generally with no console (one reason we got the Sedona was the console which we prefer from our car and SUV ownership, and better interior styling and materials than the competition. A 3 row crossover feels much more like a car, with a molded floorpan, less upright seating position, etc. That package to me is immeasurably more attractive as a vehicle that I would enjoy owning and driving.
The minivan for us is a necessary tool at this stage in our family's lives. But, you better believe when the kids can get themselves in and out of the car, we don't need strollers anymore...the minivan will be replaced with a 3 row crossover. Immediately. The lease is up on the Sedona in just under 2 years. We'll probably lease another minivan for 3 years, then after that the kids will be 6, and we'll get back into an SUV/Crossover.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-10-16 at 11:22 AM.
07-10-16, 11:26 AM
#38
Lexus Fanatic
You keep mentioning good ground clearance but look at the ground clearance of the Pathfinder. You consider THAT good ground clearance? Maybe for city driving.
I've driven many small crossovers, to me, it's not an ounce easier to drive than a Sienna. If anything, it's more difficult with their typically smaller side windows and bigger blind spots. I highly doubt one person drove a Sienna or any other minivan and did not purchase it because it was too large and difficult to drive over something like a pathfinder or Highlander.
Also your argument about only needing a minivan if you have a large family is not correct. I know plenty of people that don't have 5 kids in the family that would go with a minivan any day of the week over some suv-wannabe Pathfinder. Cargo room and ride quality being on the top of the list.
I've driven many small crossovers, to me, it's not an ounce easier to drive than a Sienna. If anything, it's more difficult with their typically smaller side windows and bigger blind spots. I highly doubt one person drove a Sienna or any other minivan and did not purchase it because it was too large and difficult to drive over something like a pathfinder or Highlander.
Also your argument about only needing a minivan if you have a large family is not correct. I know plenty of people that don't have 5 kids in the family that would go with a minivan any day of the week over some suv-wannabe Pathfinder. Cargo room and ride quality being on the top of the list.
And, my brother has 2 kids and is now on their second Sienna, so you are right, not everyone who drives a van has lots of kids.
07-10-16, 12:58 PM
#39
Lexus Fanatic
07-10-16, 01:59 PM
#40
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You keep mentioning good ground clearance but look at the ground clearance of the Pathfinder. You consider THAT good ground clearance? Maybe for city driving.
I've driven many small crossovers, to me, it's not an ounce easier to drive than a Sienna. If anything, it's more difficult with their typically smaller side windows and bigger blind spots. I highly doubt one person drove a Sienna or any other minivan and did not purchase it because it was too large and difficult to drive over something like a pathfinder or Highlander.
Also your argument about only needing a minivan if you have a large family is not correct. I know plenty of people that don't have 5 kids in the family that would go with a minivan any day of the week over some suv-wannabe Pathfinder. Cargo room and ride quality being on the top of the list.
I've driven many small crossovers, to me, it's not an ounce easier to drive than a Sienna. If anything, it's more difficult with their typically smaller side windows and bigger blind spots. I highly doubt one person drove a Sienna or any other minivan and did not purchase it because it was too large and difficult to drive over something like a pathfinder or Highlander.
Also your argument about only needing a minivan if you have a large family is not correct. I know plenty of people that don't have 5 kids in the family that would go with a minivan any day of the week over some suv-wannabe Pathfinder. Cargo room and ride quality being on the top of the list.
I didn't say anything about driving ease. Sure a minivan will generally be easier to drive. It is also the most boring vehicle segment to drive.
It still sounds like you miss the whole point of a crossover even when it's explained. You are free not to like them.
You are also mistaken that a crossover is trying to be either a BOF SUV or minivan withough actually being those things. No, a crossover is trying to be a crossover. You could think of it in terms of a hybrid. A segment hybrid. Just as a hybrid drivetrain blends the benefits of gas and electric to accomplish a desirable outcome vs straight gas or straight electric. A hybrid doesn't try to hide what it is. In fact it usually flaunts it (Prius).
07-10-16, 02:30 PM
#41
The Nissan Pathfinder is my least favorite crossover. It does have one of the lower ground clearances. My 2 favorite are the new CX-9 and Highlander. The CX-9 is close to a Grand Chrokee's clearance. But that is still just a tiny aspect of what makes a crossover more appealing. It's way down on my list.
I didn't say anything about driving ease. Sure a minivan will generally be easier to drive. It is also the most boring vehicle segment to drive.
It still sounds like you miss the whole point of a crossover even when it's explained. You are free not to like them.
You are also mistaken that a crossover is trying to be either a BOF SUV or minivan withough actually being those things. No, a crossover is trying to be a crossover. You could think of it in terms of a hybrid. A segment hybrid. Just as a hybrid drivetrain blends the benefits of gas and electric to accomplish a desirable outcome vs straight gas or straight electric. A hybrid doesn't try to hide what it is. In fact it usually flaunts it (Prius).
I didn't say anything about driving ease. Sure a minivan will generally be easier to drive. It is also the most boring vehicle segment to drive.
It still sounds like you miss the whole point of a crossover even when it's explained. You are free not to like them.
You are also mistaken that a crossover is trying to be either a BOF SUV or minivan withough actually being those things. No, a crossover is trying to be a crossover. You could think of it in terms of a hybrid. A segment hybrid. Just as a hybrid drivetrain blends the benefits of gas and electric to accomplish a desirable outcome vs straight gas or straight electric. A hybrid doesn't try to hide what it is. In fact it usually flaunts it (Prius).
07-10-16, 02:51 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
07-10-16, 04:02 PM
#44
I've driven both Highlander and several RX350 variants from 2006 to 2015. They don't ride the same as the van. Period. And there is absolutely no argument that a van like a Sienna or Odyssey is far more versatile in its interior configuration.
The only advantage I can see one of these wanna-be SUVs having is an edge in the looks department and slightly better offroad if that particular CUV is actually designed for it with higher clearance in mind.
Most people that actually use a vehicle offroad in states with mountains or bad trails won't be caught dead in something like a Honda Pilot or any of the other CUVs mentioned here.
Is it a hot segment? Sure, but mainly because people are too worried about how they present themselves, aka nobody wants to be seen in a minivan "mommy mobile" unless they really need one, so they opt out for a CUV that has better versatility than a sedan.
07-10-16, 04:06 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic
Should, could, would. You sounds like you talk from alot of experience.
I've driven both Highlander and several RX350 variants from 2006 to 2015. They don't ride the same as the van. Period. And there is absolutely no argument that a van like a Sienna or Odyssey is far more versatile in its interior configuration.
The only advantage I can see one of these wanna-be SUVs having is an edge in the looks department and slightly better offroad if that particular CUV is actually designed for it with higher clearance in mind.
Most people that actually use a vehicle offroad in states with mountains or bad trails won't be caught dead in something like a Honda Pilot or any of the other CUVs mentioned here.
Is it a hot segment? Sure, but mainly because people are too worried about how they present themselves, aka nobody wants to be seen in a minivan "mommy mobile" unless they really need one, so they opt out for a CUV that has better versatility than a sedan.
I've driven both Highlander and several RX350 variants from 2006 to 2015. They don't ride the same as the van. Period. And there is absolutely no argument that a van like a Sienna or Odyssey is far more versatile in its interior configuration.
The only advantage I can see one of these wanna-be SUVs having is an edge in the looks department and slightly better offroad if that particular CUV is actually designed for it with higher clearance in mind.
Most people that actually use a vehicle offroad in states with mountains or bad trails won't be caught dead in something like a Honda Pilot or any of the other CUVs mentioned here.
Is it a hot segment? Sure, but mainly because people are too worried about how they present themselves, aka nobody wants to be seen in a minivan "mommy mobile" unless they really need one, so they opt out for a CUV that has better versatility than a sedan.