Toys4RJill

This pretty much sums it up for me.

svelt

It takes a long, long time to change reputation in the automotive industry. Hyundai was a running joke for decades until recently, and even then many people still think of them as cheap junk. Will take another generation to wipe that perception completely off the map.

I like the performance and design of German cars, but have seen enough issues firsthand that I would take a Lexus for the sake of the bulletproof reliability on simply the basis of the last two Lexus vehicles I've owned, whether the current data corroborates with my perceptions and personal experiences or not.

dseag2

Agreed, and that's why I'm in an Audi now. My first foray into Audi was an '01 A6 4.2. Loved the car, but I said I would never own one again due to minor issues and horrible service. After that, everything I owned was Acura, Lexus or Infiniti. I was just too afraid to go German. Not anymore.

That's not to say the '13 GS F Sport I owned for almost 3 years wasn't a great, bulletproof car. It was. But so is my S5. Perception lags reality, and Lexus just isn't that far ahead of some of the competitors anymore.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

ok, but that's old news at this point. things can and do change. i would NOT have bought a jeep 10 years ago, but my '15 has been perfect. i certainly wouldn't have bought a hyundai/kia 10 years ago either (unless i was broke ) but today, sure...

a lot of this has to do with increased automation, precision, and also just plain hard work sweating the details, incorporating feedback to continuous improvement, etc. keep at it long enough and it pays off.

mmarshall

Well, the JGC is an especially nice product, I'll admit, and the regular Cherokee is not bad. But...........(and correct me if I'm wrong)...........I don't think I'd see many smiles on your face if you were stuck with a Renegade, Compass, Patriot, or Wrangler, unless you happened to like the Wrangler's off-road mountain-goat capability, as many of its fans do. Lower-line Jeeps, IMO, reek of cheapness inside and out, though some improvement has been made in the latest Compass and Patriot. The Renegade, though, reminds me of toy Jeeps I played with as a kid.

Actually, bit, one has to go back a little further than that to find junk Hyundais. IMO the best Sonatas and Santa Fes, for example, were built from 2005/2006 to about 2010/2011. The ones since then, IMO, have been somewhat of a letdown. Kia, in contrast, sent to steadily improve all the time.

a lot of this has to do with increased automation, precision, and also just plain hard work sweating the details, incorporating feedback to continuous improvement, etc. keep at it long enough and it pays off.[/QUOTE]

LexBob2

I'm also in an Audi. We had a 2013 Q5 which was our first Audi. It was rock solid with only routine service and a couple of service bulletins that were brought to my attention when in for service. A great vehicle. We almost bought another one. However, we just traded it in on a 2016 A6 (same color as your S5!) and are really enjoying this one too so far.

SW17LS

The downmarket Jeeps you mention though, the Compass and Patriot are old models on their way out. The Wrangler is awesome for what it is, its not meant to be plush or luxurious, its meant to be cool and fun. I have several neighbors with big 4 door ones and they love them.

The Renegade is fine for what is is, an inexpensive go anywhere micro-ute. I've not been in another similar "micro ute" that was better built...

They're moving in the right direction.

mmarshall

The Compass was never meant to be a Jeep in the first place. Jeep marketers admit that it was a basically a grocery-shopping compact car/hatchback with a Jeep grille on it. It was a derivative of the low-rated Dodge Caliber.

Yes, no arguments there. It is extremely popular with the off-road crowd, despite its crudeness.

That, I'll respectfully disagree on. It uses the same platform (though with a different body/interior) as the Fiat 500L/500X, which, according to Consumer Reports, is one of the most unreliable vehicles in the American market. Both the Nissan Juke and Honda HR-V, IMO, though lacking a Trail-Rated version like the Renegade, are considerably better-built.

rudyH

The Germans have come a long way recently. It's amazing actually. Kua has done stunningly well. 10 years ago the word Kia was met with "who?" Lexus is still great and will very likely be my choica again next purchase it has been since it came out BUT I am seriously looking at Kia and Mercedes. I can't believe it myself. Lexus still has, in my opinion, the best service dealer experience but my last two buying experiences were not pleasant at all. Very dishonest. Service is down too but still very good. I hope they get their act together and remember how the reputation was built in the first place. Competition is fierce.

97-SC300

iTrader: (17)

Hows the resale value on a Kia or Hyundai compared to Toyota?

dseag2

Great point. Not sure how Kia and Hyundai compare but Acura and Toyota still top Edmunds retained value lists...

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/b...alue-cars.html