View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
#542
Lexus Fanatic
Why would car companies want to let everybody see their new model before its revealed? Remember this is a business. They need to be able to sell the current model, they want to build up excitement about a new model. They want people clamor of trying to see pictures of test mules because it creates excitement and chatter, and that's good for business.
]On top of that, why give your competition advance knowledge of what you're developing?
]On top of that, why give your competition advance knowledge of what you're developing?
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-02-16 at 06:35 AM.
#543
Lexus Fanatic
You're just not acknowledging the business aspect of this. For one, the vast majority of buyers don't look at spy shots, and even those that do, have you ever heard anybody say "I would have bought that car if only they hadn't strung me along with all that camouflage for so long". I post on a lot of forums and read even more...never seen that posted ever.
Companies aren't trying to be annoying, they're trying to preserve their intellectual property rights, trying to keep consumers buying the current version of the car by not letting them see what's around the corner, and they're preserving their ability to create buzz and fanfare and excitement when they do officially launch the car.
If everybody knows what the car looks like a year plus before it comes out, or what content it has, why is anybody going to attend or write about a big reveal?
Like I said, it's a business.
Companies aren't trying to be annoying, they're trying to preserve their intellectual property rights, trying to keep consumers buying the current version of the car by not letting them see what's around the corner, and they're preserving their ability to create buzz and fanfare and excitement when they do officially launch the car.
If everybody knows what the car looks like a year plus before it comes out, or what content it has, why is anybody going to attend or write about a big reveal?
Like I said, it's a business.
#544
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (7)
This was kind of how it was prior to the RC-F pre-prototypes, when they were using a IS-C body to test out the RC-F powertrain and suspension on the Nurburgring before it was used on the new body. In this case, using a prior gen LS body to test the powertrain and suspension.
Last edited by Individual; 07-02-16 at 08:24 AM.
#545
Lexus Fanatic
I've heard that argument before, but generally don't agree with it. For one thing, in most cases, unless you are talking about the kind of cookie-cutter rebadging we saw decades ago from domestic manufacturers, new vehicles can't be developed and tested overnight. Even if a competitor DOES see what you are doing in advance, it will probably be at least a couple of years before that company can significantly respond. Look how long, for example, it is taking Cadillac to develop a true compact-class CUV to compete with the MKX and NX......the upcoming XT5 is a mid-size SUV, not compact. Besides, irritate enough potential buyers with too much of that body-cover nonsense, and you could potentially lose sales and money.
As for GM, they have always been brutal at hiding things. Not sure if it is intentional, but they release a new model style and yet they keep selling the older model for months on end compared to the Japanese. Case in point the next generation Verano, how long ago was that model introduced yet the current Verano is still sold. The worst was the 99 (I believe it was that year) full size GM trucks, they new body style was sold alongside the outgoing model for one full model year. I think they called the older one a "Classic" at the time for the last model year.
Generally speaking, I applaud the Japanese automakers, they take the secrecy of launching a new model or redesigned model very seriously and that holds a lot of value for the model being released. But overall, Honda and Toyota along with Lexus and Acura as a brand usually is worth a lot more than GM brands such as Cadillac, Buick, Chevrolet and GMC.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-02-16 at 04:56 PM.
#546
Lexus Fanatic
This was kind of how it was prior to the RC-F pre-prototypes, when they were using a IS-C body to test out the RC-F powertrain and suspension on the Nurburgring before it was used on the new body. In this case, using a prior gen LS body to test the powertrain and suspension.
#547
Lexus Fanatic
As for GM, they have always been brutal at hiding things. Not sure if it is intentional, but they release a new model style and yet they keep selling the older model for months on end compared to the Japanese. Case in point the next generation Verano, how long ago was that model introduced yet the current Verano is still sold.
Generally speaking, I applaud the Japanese automakers, they take the secrecy of launching a new model or redesigned model very seriously and that holds a lot of value for the model being released. But overall, Honda and Toyota along with Lexus and Acura as a brand usually is worth a lot more than GM brands such as Cadillac, Buick, Chevrolet and GMC.
#548
Lexus Fanatic
If you don't understand the business reasons to keep a design under wraps until they reveal it according to their press/rollout strategy I really don't know what to tell you...
To me this is like someone not understanding why you don't eat the food before it's cooked.
To me this is like someone not understanding why you don't eat the food before it's cooked.
#549
Lexus Champion
I am in the aerospace business so I am familiar with introducing new products to the market. New products -- even minor upgrades to an existing product (think mid-model facelifts) -- are so sensitive that those programs are deemed secret, even at the prime manufacturer. When and if we are selected to work on a new (or upgrade) program, we are told not to reveal details to suppliers, and not even co-workers (especially temporary, contract workers) or family members for fear that details may find their way to competitors.
We are only half-joking when we tell our colleagues that "I can tell you what I am working on but then I would have to kill you".
We all do eventually become aware that a new program is underway but only those directly involved and need-to-know will know the details (and the rest of us know better than to try to ask for details). Suppliers will know (especially if a supplier provides components for both an existing product and the new product); and customers and competitors will know that something is in the works, but they will not know the all-important technical details and -- more importantly -- they will not know the planned release date.
Comparing this to the auto-manufacturing world, we -- potential customers and competitors -- all know that a new Camry (or LS) is coming but no one (except the need-to-know) has knowledge of the all-important technical details and planned release date. Dealers know some of the details and release dates but are sworn to secrecy; and auto reviewers may see the new product weeks or even months before the release date but, again, are not allowed to release their reviews until a certain date dictated by the automaker.
We are only half-joking when we tell our colleagues that "I can tell you what I am working on but then I would have to kill you".
We all do eventually become aware that a new program is underway but only those directly involved and need-to-know will know the details (and the rest of us know better than to try to ask for details). Suppliers will know (especially if a supplier provides components for both an existing product and the new product); and customers and competitors will know that something is in the works, but they will not know the all-important technical details and -- more importantly -- they will not know the planned release date.
Comparing this to the auto-manufacturing world, we -- potential customers and competitors -- all know that a new Camry (or LS) is coming but no one (except the need-to-know) has knowledge of the all-important technical details and planned release date. Dealers know some of the details and release dates but are sworn to secrecy; and auto reviewers may see the new product weeks or even months before the release date but, again, are not allowed to release their reviews until a certain date dictated by the automaker.
#550
Lexus Fanatic
I am in the aerospace business so I am familiar with introducing new products to the market. New products -- even minor upgrades to an existing product (think mid-model facelifts) -- are so sensitive that those programs are deemed secret, even at the prime manufacturer. When and if we are selected to work on a new (or upgrade) program, we are told not to reveal details to suppliers, and not even co-workers (especially temporary, contract workers) or family members for fear that details may find their way to competitors.
We are only half-joking when we tell our colleagues that "I can tell you what I am working on but then I would have to kill you".
We all do eventually become aware that a new program is underway but only those directly involved and need-to-know will know the details (and the rest of us know better than to try to ask for details). Suppliers will know (especially if a supplier provides components for both an existing product and the new product); and customers and competitors will know that something is in the works, but they will not know the all-important technical details and -- more importantly -- they will not know the planned release date.
Comparing this to the auto-manufacturing world, we -- potential customers and competitors -- all know that a new Camry (or LS) is coming but no one (except the need-to-know) has knowledge of the all-important technical details and planned release date. Dealers know some of the details and release dates but are sworn to secrecy; and auto reviewers may see the new product weeks or even months before the release date but, again, are not allowed to release their reviews until a certain date dictated by the automaker.
We are only half-joking when we tell our colleagues that "I can tell you what I am working on but then I would have to kill you".
We all do eventually become aware that a new program is underway but only those directly involved and need-to-know will know the details (and the rest of us know better than to try to ask for details). Suppliers will know (especially if a supplier provides components for both an existing product and the new product); and customers and competitors will know that something is in the works, but they will not know the all-important technical details and -- more importantly -- they will not know the planned release date.
Comparing this to the auto-manufacturing world, we -- potential customers and competitors -- all know that a new Camry (or LS) is coming but no one (except the need-to-know) has knowledge of the all-important technical details and planned release date. Dealers know some of the details and release dates but are sworn to secrecy; and auto reviewers may see the new product weeks or even months before the release date but, again, are not allowed to release their reviews until a certain date dictated by the automaker.
Also, competitor secrets is a big, big thing. Competitors in the auto industry often purchase models from the competitors and then tear them down to find out how they were built and with what new methods and secrets. Why on earth would a company just let this information be released? Or the tech data like hp and stuff like that? or the pricing?
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-03-16 at 07:44 AM.
#551
Lexus Fanatic
I think most would agree on hear that the Verano was a nice one and done vehicle. There is a small business segment for GM is this category. If GM saw faith in the Verano, they would keep building it but sales have really decreased substantially since the launch of the model. If sales held steady, there would be a new Buick Verano released in the US for the 2017 model year. There is likely a Cadillac Verano on the way that will be a little more expensive than the current Verano. Perhaps they will call it the Cadlilac VT3 or something like it?
You could get a loaded top of the line Cruze?
Originally Posted by mmarshall;9540607s
I would have probably bought a next-gen Verano, .
#552
Lexus Fanatic
My sister works in your industry, she works for a major aerospace supplier and a lot of things are indeed off wraps and limits. Trade secrets etc and I assume stock price can be affected. She sometimes shows me a day or two ahead of the public press release what she just worked on. Then two days later its all over the press.
#553
Lexus Fanatic
I think most would agree on hear that the Verano was a nice one and done vehicle. There is a small business segment for GM is this category. If GM saw faith in the Verano, they would keep building it but sales have really decreased substantially since the launch of the model. If sales held steady, there would be a new Buick Verano released in the US for the 2017 model year. There is likely a Cadillac Verano on the way that will be a little more expensive than the current Verano. Perhaps they will call it the Cadlilac VT3 or something like it?
Again, it was the Encore's great success that caused GM to convert the Verano plant at Wixom to CUV production. In fact, a couple of my colleagues and and associates bought Encores.
You could get a loaded top of the line Cruze?
Also, with all due respect, we're getting off the thread-topic......the new LS and its camouflage.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-04-16 at 06:41 AM.
#554
Lexus Fanatic
Same is true of Lexus and Toyota. Yes, Lexus is rated higher...but its the same manufacturer.
[moderated]
Last edited by bitkahuna; 07-04-16 at 09:37 AM.
#555
Cadillacs DO have "Buick reliability". Its the same manufacturer, theres no reason a Cadillac would be less reliable than a Buick or a Chevrolet or whatever. You have differences in what is reported, Cadillac is dragged down by complaints about the CUE system in JD Power reports, but thats one important thing to understand when discussing this data, the data is just a guideline. If someone chooses to buy a Cadillac over a Buick, they are not forgoing "Buick reliability". Its the same manufacturer.
Same is true of Lexus and Toyota. Yes, Lexus is rated higher...but its the same manufacturer.
[moderated]
Same is true of Lexus and Toyota. Yes, Lexus is rated higher...but its the same manufacturer.
[moderated]
Their newer stuff like the Escalade, RWD CTS and ATS are a lot better, but aren't nearly up to the level of Lexus in terms of being trouble free.