SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

You're looking at the current gen LS, this is not the next gen body. At this stage, they are testing the inner parts, engine, suspension..ect

Spindle grile is not going anywhere. We already saw it on the concept that was shown last year.

mmarshall

I've heard that argument before, but generally don't agree with it. For one thing, in most cases, unless you are talking about the kind of cookie-cutter rebadging we saw decades ago from domestic manufacturers, new vehicles can't be developed and tested overnight. Even if a competitor DOES see what you are doing in advance, it will probably be at least a couple of years before that company can significantly respond. Look how long, for example, it is taking Cadillac to develop a true compact-class CUV to compete with the MKX and NX......the upcoming XT5 is a mid-size SUV, not compact. Besides, irritate enough potential buyers with too much of that body-cover nonsense, and you could potentially lose sales and money.

SW17LS

You're just not acknowledging the business aspect of this. For one, the vast majority of buyers don't look at spy shots, and even those that do, have you ever heard anybody say "I would have bought that car if only they hadn't strung me along with all that camouflage for so long". I post on a lot of forums and read even more...never seen that posted ever.

Companies aren't trying to be annoying, they're trying to preserve their intellectual property rights, trying to keep consumers buying the current version of the car by not letting them see what's around the corner, and they're preserving their ability to create buzz and fanfare and excitement when they do officially launch the car.

If everybody knows what the car looks like a year plus before it comes out, or what content it has, why is anybody going to attend or write about a big reveal?

Like I said, it's a business.

Individual

iTrader: (7)

This was kind of how it was prior to the RC-F pre-prototypes, when they were using a IS-C body to test out the RC-F powertrain and suspension on the Nurburgring before it was used on the new body. In this case, using a prior gen LS body to test the powertrain and suspension.

Toys4RJill

Historically, Japanese automakers have been pretty good at keeping under wraps what a new model vehicle looks like including the specs and interiors. I don't follow what German brands do as much.

As for GM, they have always been brutal at hiding things. Not sure if it is intentional, but they release a new model style and yet they keep selling the older model for months on end compared to the Japanese. Case in point the next generation Verano, how long ago was that model introduced yet the current Verano is still sold. The worst was the 99 (I believe it was that year) full size GM trucks, they new body style was sold alongside the outgoing model for one full model year. I think they called the older one a "Classic" at the time for the last model year.

Generally speaking, I applaud the Japanese automakers, they take the secrecy of launching a new model or redesigned model very seriously and that holds a lot of value for the model being released. But overall, Honda and Toyota along with Lexus and Acura as a brand usually is worth a lot more than GM brands such as Cadillac, Buick, Chevrolet and GMC.

Toys4RJill

Toyota does this all the time. The launch of the new generation LS is a big big thing for Lexus. It's still a while away and why would Lexus want to give anything away right now about it. I wouldn't be surprised if the wheelbase while be the same for the new one, new engines and a new interior along with other new stuff. Why give it away now.

mmarshall

Everybody, for the most part, uses disguises and camouflages to some extent. It has been an industry practice for decades.....though IMO an unnecessary one.

The Verano's problem has nothing to do with camouflage. The main issue is that skyrocketing Buick SUV sales (primarily from the Encore) are simply crowding Buick sedans out of the American market, and GM feels it needs the Wixom, MI plant, where the American-market Verano is assembled, for more SUV production. The next-gen Verano will continue in China. I personally don't like GM's decision, as I would have probably bought a next-gen Verano, but it does make at least some sense from a business point of view.....until gas prices go back up again. (Also, of course, my knee injury, depending on how well it eventually heals and how much motion I eventually get back, may dictate another type of vehicle for me next time......something that is easier getting in and out).

No. From a business point of view, it makes little difference whether it is a GM or Japanese-nameplate product. The basic issue and philosophy is still the same.

SW17LS

If you don't understand the business reasons to keep a design under wraps until they reveal it according to their press/rollout strategy I really don't know what to tell you...

To me this is like someone not understanding why you don't eat the food before it's cooked.

Sulu

I am in the aerospace business so I am familiar with introducing new products to the market. New products -- even minor upgrades to an existing product (think mid-model facelifts) -- are so sensitive that those programs are deemed secret, even at the prime manufacturer. When and if we are selected to work on a new (or upgrade) program, we are told not to reveal details to suppliers, and not even co-workers (especially temporary, contract workers) or family members for fear that details may find their way to competitors.

We are only half-joking when we tell our colleagues that "I can tell you what I am working on but then I would have to kill you".

We all do eventually become aware that a new program is underway but only those directly involved and need-to-know will know the details (and the rest of us know better than to try to ask for details). Suppliers will know (especially if a supplier provides components for both an existing product and the new product); and customers and competitors will know that something is in the works, but they will not know the all-important technical details and -- more importantly -- they will not know the planned release date.

Comparing this to the auto-manufacturing world, we -- potential customers and competitors -- all know that a new Camry (or LS) is coming but no one (except the need-to-know) has knowledge of the all-important technical details and planned release date. Dealers know some of the details and release dates but are sworn to secrecy; and auto reviewers may see the new product weeks or even months before the release date but, again, are not allowed to release their reviews until a certain date dictated by the automaker.

Toys4RJill

Right on! A lot of industries work the way you describe, the auto industry is no different. The auto makers spend hundreds of millions of dollars on new car engineering and designs and the last thing they want is for the new car release excitement, hype and secrets to be given away months or even years ahead of time. I believe GM does not make as big of an issue of new vehicle release info as does Toyota or Honda.

Also, competitor secrets is a big, big thing. Competitors in the auto industry often purchase models from the competitors and then tear them down to find out how they were built and with what new methods and secrets. Why on earth would a company just let this information be released? Or the tech data like hp and stuff like that? or the pricing?

Toys4RJill

I think most would agree on hear that the Verano was a nice one and done vehicle. There is a small business segment for GM is this category. If GM saw faith in the Verano, they would keep building it but sales have really decreased substantially since the launch of the model. If sales held steady, there would be a new Buick Verano released in the US for the 2017 model year. There is likely a Cadillac Verano on the way that will be a little more expensive than the current Verano. Perhaps they will call it the Cadlilac VT3 or something like it?

You could get a loaded top of the line Cruze?

Toys4RJill

My sister works in your industry, she works for a major aerospace supplier and a lot of things are indeed off wraps and limits. Trade secrets etc and I assume stock price can be affected. She sometimes shows me a day or two ahead of the public press release what she just worked on. Then two days later its all over the press.

mmarshall

Cadillacs, though, don't have Buick reliability....and they cost a lot more. The Verano and Encore have been especially reliable....much more so than average for GM.

Again, it was the Encore's great success that caused GM to convert the Verano plant at Wixom to CUV production. In fact, a couple of my colleagues and and associates bought Encores.





Well, with all due respect, that's where you and I disagree....by now, as many times as we have discussed this, that disagreement should be obvious. A Cruze, even in top dog trim, is NOT a Verano....not even close. I can easily tell the difference between them, especially in powertrain smoothness and sound insulation, with my eyes closed.


Also, with all due respect, we're getting off the thread-topic......the new LS and its camouflage.

SW17LS

Cadillacs DO have "Buick reliability". Its the same manufacturer, theres no reason a Cadillac would be less reliable than a Buick or a Chevrolet or whatever. You have differences in what is reported, Cadillac is dragged down by complaints about the CUE system in JD Power reports, but thats one important thing to understand when discussing this data, the data is just a guideline. If someone chooses to buy a Cadillac over a Buick, they are not forgoing "Buick reliability". Its the same manufacturer.

Same is true of Lexus and Toyota. Yes, Lexus is rated higher...but its the same manufacturer.

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Aron9000

Historically, going back to the 80's/90's/early-mid 00's, Cadillacs have had WAY more problems than your typical Buick with the 3.8 V6. HT4100 V8, Northstar V8 eating headgaskets, problematic electronic shocks, transmissions that have a $10 sensor fail that requires $1500 in labor to fix, that's a short list lol. I owned a couple Cadillacs and was on their board a lot, the FWD cars are very trouble prone. Cadillacs, 20 years ago or even new ones today share very few parts with Buicks.

Their newer stuff like the Escalade, RWD CTS and ATS are a lot better, but aren't nearly up to the level of Lexus in terms of being trouble free.