Toyota 86 chief engineer Tetsuya Tada wants performance divison to rival M, AMG
05-14-16, 06:25 PM
#16
05-15-16, 08:22 AM
#17
You can do both, performance and reliability. The Camaro and Corvette(minus the engine problems on the 2014 Vette) have proven over the years to be reliable. I say reliable, that doesn't mean particularly well made in terms of fit/finish on the interior bits. The S2000 is another example of a very durable/reliable car, especially considering how high the engine revs.
Where you run into reliability problems is with turbocharged performance cars. If you leave them alone, stock, yes they are reliable. But you know nobody does that, so cars like the Subie WRX, the Supra, Mitsubishi EVO, the 300ZX, they get an unfair rap for being kind of finicky because people mess with them(and in the case of the Subie, break transmissions doing 6000rpm clutch dumps)
Where you run into reliability problems is with turbocharged performance cars. If you leave them alone, stock, yes they are reliable. But you know nobody does that, so cars like the Subie WRX, the Supra, Mitsubishi EVO, the 300ZX, they get an unfair rap for being kind of finicky because people mess with them(and in the case of the Subie, break transmissions doing 6000rpm clutch dumps)
05-15-16, 03:59 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
The lead engineer behind the Toyota 86, Tetsuya Tada, has revealed a goal to create a performance brand rival to challenge Audi’s quattro GmbH, BMW’s M and Mercedes-Benz’s Mercedes-AMG divisions,
05-15-16, 09:20 PM
#19
Why don't they first focus on the Lexus F division bringing some real competition to the table. The RCF and GSF, while nice cars in their own right, are hopelessly outclassed by the competition from a performance standpoint.
05-16-16, 07:05 AM
#20
Why I get so aggravated with this is, Toyota is not new to this game. They're been around for a long time and has extensive resources at their disposal to build, by now, a real performance car, as evidenced, using an an example, by all these build threads in many different forums.
They have TRD, Gazoo Racing, Yamaha, collaboration with other manufacturers, specialty builders, etc. etc. Yet, they don't really seem to know how to make a real sports car. The car starts out in concept sketches as true sports cars then production delivers big heavy GT cruisers that always needs a drop with tacky looking add spoilers.
How much more "learning" from the F-line do they need?
They have TRD, Gazoo Racing, Yamaha, collaboration with other manufacturers, specialty builders, etc. etc. Yet, they don't really seem to know how to make a real sports car. The car starts out in concept sketches as true sports cars then production delivers big heavy GT cruisers that always needs a drop with tacky looking add spoilers.
How much more "learning" from the F-line do they need?
05-16-16, 08:02 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
they know how to do it, they just don't like spending the money (return is usually poor) and probably a lot of their management isn't interested, preferring to crank out camry's and suvs.
05-16-16, 11:06 AM
#23
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
Thread Starter
The F brand can't even be remotely compared to AMG and M in terms of resources (both financial and manpower), focus, development/engineering intent, variety of products, and marketing power. Even quattro GMBH offers far more than F does, with dedicated in-house production models and far more customization than F-Sport.
What's pathetic about it is that, other than MB's 25-unit CLK GTR and the possible exception of BMW's M1, Lexus has made a better performance car than any of those three ever have. But so far they have never trickled down the technology or lessons learned as they originally promised.
What's pathetic about it is that, other than MB's 25-unit CLK GTR and the possible exception of BMW's M1, Lexus has made a better performance car than any of those three ever have. But so far they have never trickled down the technology or lessons learned as they originally promised.
05-16-16, 05:50 PM
#24
Lexus Champion
Yes. The Mustang and Camaro have achieved performance and reliability minus the drivers feel of a BMW - where driver and car become one. BMW went through that process to get that tag, and it was expensive for the end customers. Multiple bushing failures and replacements. Something that never shows up on a Toyota owners invoice when it is serviced.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/compa...let-camaro-ss/
Here’s a sentence I never thought I’d write,” boss man Angus MacKenzie wrote at the time. “The Chevrolet Camaro is a better, more entertaining car to drive than a BMW 3 Series.” MacKenzie was talking about the brand-new 340i, a car that most certainly did not take home our Golden Calipers. But what if we put our new darling COTY winner up against the gold standard of Teutonic performance machines, the venerable BMW M4?
Well, guess what? The Camaro came in #1, the M4 #2.
Times they are a changin'.
05-16-16, 10:34 PM
#25
It seems that is not the case anymore. The '16 Camaro was compared to a BMW and was found to be more engaging. I've seen this in several comparos.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/compa...let-camaro-ss/
Here’s a sentence I never thought I’d write,” boss man Angus MacKenzie wrote at the time. “The Chevrolet Camaro is a better, more entertaining car to drive than a BMW 3 Series.” MacKenzie was talking about the brand-new 340i, a car that most certainly did not take home our Golden Calipers. But what if we put our new darling COTY winner up against the gold standard of Teutonic performance machines, the venerable BMW M4?
Well, guess what? The Camaro came in #1, the M4 #2.
Times they are a changin'.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/compa...let-camaro-ss/
Here’s a sentence I never thought I’d write,” boss man Angus MacKenzie wrote at the time. “The Chevrolet Camaro is a better, more entertaining car to drive than a BMW 3 Series.” MacKenzie was talking about the brand-new 340i, a car that most certainly did not take home our Golden Calipers. But what if we put our new darling COTY winner up against the gold standard of Teutonic performance machines, the venerable BMW M4?
Well, guess what? The Camaro came in #1, the M4 #2.
Times they are a changin'.
About to say, the Camaro better drive like a BMW, the V8 models cost just as much as a nicely equipped 328i
05-17-16, 06:31 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
05-17-16, 08:59 AM
#27
It seems that is not the case anymore. The '16 Camaro was compared to a BMW and was found to be more engaging. I've seen this in several comparos.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/compa...let-camaro-ss/
Here’s a sentence I never thought I’d write,” boss man Angus MacKenzie wrote at the time. “The Chevrolet Camaro is a better, more entertaining car to drive than a BMW 3 Series.” MacKenzie was talking about the brand-new 340i, a car that most certainly did not take home our Golden Calipers. But what if we put our new darling COTY winner up against the gold standard of Teutonic performance machines, the venerable BMW M4?
Well, guess what? The Camaro came in #1, the M4 #2.
Times they are a changin'.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/compa...let-camaro-ss/
Here’s a sentence I never thought I’d write,” boss man Angus MacKenzie wrote at the time. “The Chevrolet Camaro is a better, more entertaining car to drive than a BMW 3 Series.” MacKenzie was talking about the brand-new 340i, a car that most certainly did not take home our Golden Calipers. But what if we put our new darling COTY winner up against the gold standard of Teutonic performance machines, the venerable BMW M4?
Well, guess what? The Camaro came in #1, the M4 #2.
Times they are a changin'.
The latest 2016 Camaro SS is amazing. When it drives by you, it lets out a sensual feeling, with a soft (not muted) yet engaging heavy purr of the exhausts. the styling, while controversial, is still engaging, and not humdrum.
The M4...sounds like a tin can, and styling is dated at best.
05-17-16, 09:11 AM
#28
One thing is for sure I have only seen a few GT86's in Ireland. They cost way too much. No one in their right mind would buy it for 40,000 Euros. For that price, you can get a Mustang.
05-17-16, 12:35 PM
#29
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
Thread Starter
05-18-16, 12:49 AM
#30
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The F brand can't even be remotely compared to AMG and M in terms of resources (both financial and manpower), focus, development/engineering intent, variety of products, and marketing power. Even quattro GMBH offers far more than F does, with dedicated in-house production models and far more customization than F-Sport.
What's pathetic about it is that, other than MB's 25-unit CLK GTR and the possible exception of BMW's M1, Lexus has made a better performance car than any of those three ever have. But so far they have never trickled down the technology or lessons learned as they originally promised.
What's pathetic about it is that, other than MB's 25-unit CLK GTR and the possible exception of BMW's M1, Lexus has made a better performance car than any of those three ever have. But so far they have never trickled down the technology or lessons learned as they originally promised.