Cadillac’s Problem of the Cars It Can’t Sell
05-03-16, 07:18 AM
#61
Lexus Champion
05-03-16, 07:35 AM
#62
Lexus Fanatic
I've suggested for a while that Caddy should have used a Hyundai-type strategy. Not to discount and undercut the competition, but to give you more for the same dollars. The ATS sedan requires you to go up to the 3rd tier -- Performance -- to get HID headlights and LED DRLs; make these, and other features standard. Don't bundle blind spot monitoring with a $2,500 package of other stuff. At each trim level, make more standard features than the equivalent competitor. Use reasons to lure people to your product other than it handles better than the competition--because customers looking primarily for that characteristic are small in number.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
the CT6 starts at $53,500. show me how you can get a new bmw 5, mercedes E or LS460 for that price. yes a loaded one gets close to $90 and that spread is a bit mad, but i'd bet most won't 'buy' it anyway, it will be leased, and written off, so the difference in payments aren't that relevant... it's all down to whether someone likes the vehicle. if someone is getting the bmw, mb or lexus over a cadillac because they think it will give them more 'status' at the country club or fancy restaurant, that's their deal, but i think if cadillac keeps at it, they're going to be considered very worthy competition.
Lets put it this way, my thoughts the other day about getting something less expensive to replace my LS460 when the time come, I was intrigued by the CT6. As soon as I priced one out I found optioned the way I would want if I were to go from a Lexus to a Cadillac (a downgrade to me), I found it was no cheaper...and my interest in the car immediately evaporated...before a test drive. This same scenario plays out with buyers all over the place, thats why Cadillac's vehicles haven't caught on. Too expensive for the consumer's expectation of the brand.
05-03-16, 08:38 AM
#63
Lexus Test Driver
The issue is the base car isn't that well equipped, and it has a small 4cyl engine not befitting a car of its size. To get one well optioned with a 3.6 we're talking over $60k which is solidly 5 series or E Class money. Not LS460 money, but the CT6 can be easily optioned to compete with lower trim LS460s.
Lets put it this way, my thoughts the other day about getting something less expensive to replace my LS460 when the time come, I was intrigued by the CT6. As soon as I priced one out I found optioned the way I would want if I were to go from a Lexus to a Cadillac (a downgrade to me), I found it was no cheaper...and my interest in the car immediately evaporated...before a test drive. This same scenario plays out with buyers all over the place, thats why Cadillac's vehicles haven't caught on. Too expensive for the consumer's expectation of the brand.
Lets put it this way, my thoughts the other day about getting something less expensive to replace my LS460 when the time come, I was intrigued by the CT6. As soon as I priced one out I found optioned the way I would want if I were to go from a Lexus to a Cadillac (a downgrade to me), I found it was no cheaper...and my interest in the car immediately evaporated...before a test drive. This same scenario plays out with buyers all over the place, thats why Cadillac's vehicles haven't caught on. Too expensive for the consumer's expectation of the brand.
05-03-16, 09:59 AM
#65
Lexus Fanatic
And I, in turn, agree 100%. Before someone argues that the BMW 5-Series nickels and dimes you to death too, and comes standard with a 2.0T too, I say, BMW has earned their reputation, and Caddy is still playing catch-up. It's not just about the product; it's also about the reputation and cache, which Caddy is trying to build, aside from the Escalade, and not succeeding at all.
05-03-16, 10:44 AM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
05-03-16, 11:14 AM
#67
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Minus the ES and RX, what would the Lexus sales to date look like?
05-03-16, 11:29 AM
#68
Lexus Test Driver
Right--like Cadillac sales without the Escalade....
Or, even with the Escalade:
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/05/...in-april-2016/
Or, even with the Escalade:http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/05/...in-april-2016/
05-03-16, 12:48 PM
#70
Honda, Ferrari, Mazda, and Hyundai don't have distinct features that have spanned many generations, do they? Different situation. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, and a few others have design traits that have spanned generations that won't be given up because they have worth, no matter what design theme these traits are placed in. Their management knows that suddenly giving them up isn't always the best idea in the house.
05-03-16, 02:29 PM
#71
I know that styling is subjective but I'll chime in on it too. I feel that most Cadillacs look good when they are released but they age very quickly and poorly. The 2nd gen CTS, for example, was quite sharp initially but became ugly and ungainly very quickly. The ATS has potential but still feels underwhelming, and the CTS just looks too much like a grandpas car from the sides and rear and just looks plain stupid up front. The CT6, which I have seen a couple of on the roads, just looks like a "cleaner" CTS with a very bland rear. The XT5 doesn't look anything special and certainly does not look sporty like the X3 or Q5. There are much more desirable cars from a styling-standpoint out there.
Speaking of the CT6 vs. the E-class, it's not even a comparison. Sit in the new body style E-class and the CT6 just looks 5 years old from inside. The only advantage the CT6 has is a couple extra inches of rear legroom, but the 'Benz is superior in every other facet inside and out.
Speaking of the CT6 vs. the E-class, it's not even a comparison. Sit in the new body style E-class and the CT6 just looks 5 years old from inside. The only advantage the CT6 has is a couple extra inches of rear legroom, but the 'Benz is superior in every other facet inside and out.
05-03-16, 06:25 PM
#72
Lead Lap
Yes and No. If the egg crate grille invokes a brand following, loyalty yes. But if it refreshes a traumatic experience more that the brand loyalty, then No. They need to figure out which is the case.
The design did not make them famous. Their spectacular products made their design a calling card, one which they cannot give up...that is until it turns into a traumatic calling card.
The design did not make them famous. Their spectacular products made their design a calling card, one which they cannot give up...that is until it turns into a traumatic calling card.
2) Traumatic styling elements, eh? That...that is a new one for me.
Audi's have had that greenhouse design since around the time Audi 5000's were supposedly pinning their owners against garage walls. Does that count as a traumatic styling element? 
05-03-16, 09:50 PM
#73
Lexus Test Driver
1) I never said the design itself made them famous. But it is now a styling element that invokes the brand.
2) Traumatic styling elements, eh? That...that is a new one for me. Audi's have had that greenhouse design since around the time Audi 5000's were supposedly pinning their owners against garage walls. Does that count as a traumatic styling element?
2) Traumatic styling elements, eh? That...that is a new one for me.
Audi's have had that greenhouse design since around the time Audi 5000's were supposedly pinning their owners against garage walls. Does that count as a traumatic styling element?
05-03-16, 09:56 PM
#74
Lexus Test Driver
I know that styling is subjective but I'll chime in on it too. I feel that most Cadillacs look good when they are released but they age very quickly and poorly. The 2nd gen CTS, for example, was quite sharp initially but became ugly and ungainly very quickly. The ATS has potential but still feels underwhelming, and the CTS just looks too much like a grandpas car from the sides and rear and just looks plain stupid up front. The CT6, which I have seen a couple of on the roads, just looks like a "cleaner" CTS with a very bland rear. The XT5 doesn't look anything special and certainly does not look sporty like the X3 or Q5. There are much more desirable cars from a styling-standpoint out there.
Speaking of the CT6 vs. the E-class, it's not even a comparison. Sit in the new body style E-class and the CT6 just looks 5 years old from inside. The only advantage the CT6 has is a couple extra inches of rear legroom, but the 'Benz is superior in every other facet inside and out.
Speaking of the CT6 vs. the E-class, it's not even a comparison. Sit in the new body style E-class and the CT6 just looks 5 years old from inside. The only advantage the CT6 has is a couple extra inches of rear legroom, but the 'Benz is superior in every other facet inside and out.
Retro does the same thing. Interesting for the first few moments, but quickly tires due to being seen from a previous timeframe. Today's successful cars are the ones riding the wave of the latest body styling and trim trends.
05-04-16, 05:19 AM
#75
Lexus Fanatic
I don't think the latest crop of Cadillacs are gimmicky...