BrownPride

I have to concur w/ others that it really depends on the dealer. I've seen some which are new and beautiful stand-alone dealers and others which are paired w/ other GM brands. Regardless if you are trying to compete with the big boys, having a significant percentage of Cadillacs being sold side-by-side with Chevys is not a good idea.

Sulu

I think those people who say that Cadillac needs to sell more vehicles like the Escalade have a very good point. Those who shop a brand and are loyal to that brand know what that brand stands for. It seems that Escalade reflects the Cadillac brand better than the ATS, CTS, XTS do, at least in the minds of its buyers.

So what does the Escalade brand stand for, and can that image be imprinted on Cadillac's cars? I suggest that Escalade stands for true, bold, American, new world luxury (as opposed to old world, German luxury or other world, Japanese luxury).

Perhaps Escalade (not necessarily as a truck, but as a Cadillac vehicle) -- and not the ATS, CTS, XTS -- is seen as the true successor to the bold, truly American de Ville, Fleetwood and Eldorado models.

Fizzboy7

I've mentioned this before in other threads, and I believe it applies here again. People cannot relate to the dated, boxy, and retro Cadillac styling. Those in the cue to buy these smaller and mid-sized sport/luxury sedans do not want to associate themselves with vertical taillight fins, eggcrate grilles, and the name Cadillac. These elements bring in thoughts of their grandparent's cars, when they were still alive. Call it silly, but psychology plays a huge roll in what sells. Cadillac needs to completely ditch their current styling theme and go way more mainstream. It is their only hope to gain marketshare. The past only alienates people, which is exactly what is happening right now.

da mayor

iTrader: (2)

I've heard nothing but issues from my clients on their AtS. The customer service they get at the service department is what turns them off more.

Biggest issue in New York has been the run flat tires and wheels bending.

TangoRed

Cadillac knows that. The CT8 in its original form has been cancelled, but they have said a flagship in another form will take its place. That tells me it will either be a top-trim Escalade or some other SUV variant.

I cannot stand Cadillac's styling. I truly can't. But to completely ditch their brand design might actually be a worse move. It'd be like BMW ditching their kidney grilles. Cadillac needs to evolve their styling but they need a find a way to keep the brand identity at the same time.

I also think you'll find it interesting that over the years many design studios in competing brands have made proposals with vertical tail lights, only to have them scrapped because they were too reminiscent of a Cadillac. There's some power in the Cadillac design cues.

chikoo

TangoRed, I completely disagree with you regarding brand identity. Yes, BMWs identity has been the kidney grill, and then the angel eyes. But which popular car follows that?
Ferrari? Every car looks different.
Toyota? They change styling every model year, let alone between models.
Honda? Mazda? Hyundai?

TangoRed

Cadillac can get rid of the Art & Science design theme, that's not what i'm saying. The Cadillac egg crate grille and vertical tail lights are calling cards that can be reincorporated in a new design.

Honda, Ferrari, Mazda, and Hyundai don't have distinct features that have spanned many generations, do they? Different situation. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, and a few others have design traits that have spanned generations that won't be given up because they have worth, no matter what design theme these traits are placed in. Their management knows that suddenly giving them up isn't always the best idea in the house.

mmarshall

The vertical-theme in Cadillac styling not only goes back to the outrageous (and sometimes dangerous) tail fins of the late 1950s, but actually to late 1948 when Cadillac introduced the first postwar 1949 models with the two small stubby fins in the rear. GM's design chief at that time (Harley Earl) was enamored with the Lockheed P-38 fighter plane of World War II, and its twin-boom, twin-rudder fuselage. He basically transferred the idea of the P-38's twin-rudders to automobile styling.......and the rear (and often front) fender-styling theme, in one form or another, has persisted at Cadillac for almost 70 years.

chromedome

About the only car that hasn't had many styling changes is the 911. I'm not a big fan of ugly Cadillac interiors but I think their bold exteriors attract attention - Lexus has Darth Vader mouthpiece grilles, Cadillac has sharp vertical lines, nothing wrong with that.

The issue is that they're overpriced and have build and trim quality issues that isn't in the competition. You can't charge BMW prices for a car that has less than Lexus or even Infiniti build quality. An FWD ES competitor with turbo and hybrid options would do wonders for Cadillac's sales figures, provided they put it together properly. There's no need to outhandle and outsprint BMW when there's a huge market for quiet, comfortable cruisers.

tex2670

Well, I don't see how straddling classes benefits Caddy at all.

UDel

We already know why Cadillac's have problems selling, poor image they still need to overcome, new vehicles way too expensive, ho hum interiors/CUE, powertrains not as refined as competition, sedan overlap, quality and reliability issues. They did a good job with handling and I think the new CTS looks good, one of the better looking designs in class, the old one had a nice look too but to expect to sell at Euro prices and even higher in some cases when your brand image had been so tarnished and equal quality is not there yet is just being blind to reality.

coolsaber

Which Toyota are we talking about? Every year it's the same looking vehicle, even some refreshs have been so bare it was hard to tell what changed.

Aron9000

Cadillac's problem is they jacked the prices up on the CTS, and started selling the ATS, a much smaller car for the same price as the old CTS. The ATS has a REALLY tight back seat and perhaps one of the ugliest gauge clusters on the market right now. Not to mention the questionable interior design with CUE, poor materials, and IMO just too many textures, too many shiny bits, cut lines, etc.

The interiors on their newer cars are just way too busy and don't look premium IMO. If they'd fix the interiors and CUE, I think they'd sell a lot more.

BrownPride

Spot on assessment right here. The 1st and 2nd gen CTS had an appeal because they were tweeners (5-series size for 3-series price), but now they've lost their core CTS customers by moving the CTS upmarket and introducing the ATS. Cadillac loyalists don't want to downgrade to the tiny ATS and don't want to spend the big bucks on the CTS. So in addition to continually not appealing to the German and Lexus/Infiniti crowd, GM's brilliant management lost its loyal customers too.

I am a detail-oriented guy and have noticed the same things about their interiors. Cheap-looking gauges, some controls out of the GM parts bin, and questionable fit-and-finish in some areas. Now their interiors aren't "bad" as per say like back in the day, but they're still rough around the edges relative to the competition. I also felt that the ATS and CTS interiors have too many shiny bits and just look plain gaudy instead of elegant. The alcantara stitched on half the upper door of the CTS just looks tacky, and the new CT6 has 2 different wood trims on the dash. Attention to detail? Sure. Tasteful? Not at all.

mmarshall

Cadillac's two biggest problems, right now, are probably Buick and Audi (even with the VW/Audi diesel scandal). Audis have shown a huge improvement in reliability in the last few years, are exploding in popularity, and have long-been some of the absolute masters in fit/finish. Buick, especially with the Opel-derived models, is building vehicles that are far more reliable than the typical Cadillac product....and at a generally lower price, though Buick may have (initially) overpriced the new Envision before the less-expensive models appear next year.