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that's over 3" higher, and reg prius isn't roomy for cargo to begin with. hard to know why they bother.
The new 4Gen Prius, if I remember correctly, has more cargo space than the 3Gen model (it has a lower load floor now that the hybrid battery is under the rear seat), and as a hatchback, the cargo space is not limited by the trunklid and gooseneck hinges. The 3" higher load floor in the Prius Prime, although it does cut down some on cargo space, still allows space for what most drivers will need. Who fills their full cargo space all the time?
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
because it isn't like a volt, which is ONLY driven by the electric motor, with the ice only there as a generator.
The Prius Prime is like the Volt, being driven only by the battery, only it has a shorter EV range (35km / 20+miles for the Prius Prime and 80km / 50miles for the 2016 Volt). When the battery is low, the ICE switches on to charge the battery.
The Volt does have great range for a plug-in hybrid, but then, it has a HUGE battery that takes up a lot of space in the passenger compartment.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
thanks. looks like it may have 2 batteries? one charged by hybrid and other charged by a plug?
They are 2 separate batteries, 1 under the rear seat (as in the original 2016 Prius) and an additional under the rear cargo floor but it would not make sense to operate them as 2 separate batteries.
Originally Posted by bitkahuna
regardless, there's just so much complexity with so little utility (2+2, cargo good for a couple of pizzas only), and so little benefit vs cost it's just hard to fathom the value.
a rav4 hybrid seems a hugely better value.
It does have 20miles of EV-only range. That would be good enough to get me to work in the morning (after charging overnight). If I could charge during the day at work, I would not need to use any gasoline during weekday commuting at all. And don't forget that running for 20miles on electricity is much cheaper than running for 20miles on gasoline.
The complexity comes from having 2 drivetrains -- 1 ICE and 1 electric -- but having a parallel electric drivetrain allows you to drive up to 20miles using no gasoline (and spewing no toxic emissions) at all.
The complexity comes about because we do not yet have the really high-capacity batteries that we would need to provide "normal" cars like the Corolla or Camry with the same range as their gasoline counterparts. The hybrid electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles are necessary stop-gaps until such time that we have super batteries.
The Prius Prime is like the Volt, being driven only by the battery, only it has a shorter EV range (35km / 20+miles for the Prius Prime and 80km / 50miles for the 2016 Volt). When the battery is low, the ICE switches on to charge the battery.
i've been through this thread a few times and i don't see this information. so you're saying it's NOT a hybrid car? in one post it says the engine can charge the battery while in 'fuel mode' but that doesn't mean the engine isn't driving the wheels also.
edit: reading further here: http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehic...!/how-it-works to me this is definitely NOT the same as the volt, which has wheels that are ONLY driven by electric motors. the prime is a prius with a bigger battery. the fact that the ice can re-charge the battery is nothing new, all hybrids do this anyway. but again, as far as i can tell, this car can and does drive the car with the gas motor when it deems necessary, i.e., battery isn't charged enough.
note gasoline icon in diagram from that site in image below:
edit 2: from above site:
Prius Prime works similarly to a standard Prius, but with an increased electric driving range, more powerful electric motors and enhanced fuel efficiency.
it's a hybrid. volt is not a hybrid. volt is an electric car with a gasoline powered generator.
i've been through this thread a few times and i don't see this information. so you're saying it's NOT a hybrid car? in one post it says the engine can charge the battery while in 'fuel mode' but that doesn't mean the engine isn't driving the wheels also.
edit: reading further here: http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehic...!/how-it-works to me this is definitely NOT the same as the volt, which has wheels that are ONLY driven by electric motors. the prime is a prius with a bigger battery. the fact that the ice can re-charge the battery is nothing new, all hybrids do this anyway. but again, as far as i can tell, this car can and does drive the car with the gas motor when it deems necessary, i.e., battery isn't charged enough.
note gasoline icon in diagram from that site in image below:
edit 2: from above site:
it's a hybrid. volt is not a hybrid. volt is an electric car with a gasoline powered generator.
Volt is a plug-in hybrid electric. GM just invented the term "Extended-Range Electric Vehicle" to fool you. There is a lot of obfuscation in GM's explanation about how the Voltec system works (perhaps for patent infringement issues).
By definition, a hybrid electric vehicle has 2 sources of power, one of which is electricity, one of which is not electricity (could be a gasoline engine, could be a diesel engine). It does not matter if the other, non-electrical source of power is able to directly power the wheels (as in a parallel hybrid) or is used to generate electricity to turn an electric motor that drives the wheels (as in a serial hybrid).
In fact, the 1Gen Volt had a power-split device transmission that was very similar to Toyota's and Ford's planetary gear hybrid system. The new 2Gen Volt has a very complex hybrid transmission with more than 1 planetary gearset, for efficiency purposes, says GM.
If the Volt was simply a serial hybrid (gasoline engine only used as a generator to generate electricity to recharge the battery and drive the electric motor), it would not need such a complex transmission. Regardless... The fact that the Volt can run off the battery or have the gasoline engine generate electricity makes it a hybrid vehicle.
For your information, Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive also has its electric motor constantly turning the wheels. Speed of the car is regulated by the speed of the electric motor and if the electric motor does not have enough power, the gasoline engine provides backup power.
i've been through this thread a few times and i don't see this information. so you're saying it's NOT a hybrid car? in one post it says the engine can charge the battery while in 'fuel mode' but that doesn't mean the engine isn't driving the wheels also.
edit: reading further here: http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehic...!/how-it-works to me this is definitely NOT the same as the volt, which has wheels that are ONLY driven by electric motors. the prime is a prius with a bigger battery. the fact that the ice can re-charge the battery is nothing new, all hybrids do this anyway. but again, as far as i can tell, this car can and does drive the car with the gas motor when it deems necessary, i.e., battery isn't charged enough.
note gasoline icon in diagram from that site in image below:
edit 2: from above site:
it's a hybrid. volt is not a hybrid. volt is an electric car with a gasoline powered generator.
I dont get it, do you think Prius Prime does not go on EV alone?
They both essentially do the same thing, difference is that Prius is much more efficient in doing so while Volt has bigger battery and range of EV which is not related to base technology.
The Prius is a Volt with a smaller battery pack. There, enough said
Actually the new Volt adds a one-way clutch to the planetary gearset for more efficient high speed driving. The new Prius also has this and presumably the Prime has it too. The Volt runs as a series and parallel hybrid with the engine capable of mechanically powering the front wheels.
An i3 with the optional engine is a series hybrid. The engine only runs as a generator to charge the battery pack and supply power to the electric motor, without a mechanical connection to the drive wheels.
The Prius is a Volt with a smaller battery pack. There, enough said
Actually the new Volt adds a one-way clutch to the planetary gearset for more efficient high speed driving. The new Prius also has this and presumably the Prime has it too. The Volt runs as a series and parallel hybrid with the engine capable of mechanically powering the front wheels.
An i3 with the optional engine is a series hybrid. The engine only runs as a generator to charge the battery pack and supply power to the electric motor, without a mechanical connection to the drive wheels.
thanks, that's helpful. didn't know the new volt can run parallel as well as serial.
they're all rube goldberg machines with limited utility and in the case of the prius, bizarre and cheap interior.
Let's agree to disagree I wouldn't go back to a non-hybrid after driving the ES300h for a few years. The mechanicals aren't complex, the ancient Greeks had planetary gearsets 2000 years ago in the Antikhytera Mechanism, but the electronics to control electrical and mechanical power flow are pretty fancy stuff.
The Prius’ design won’t be to everyone’s taste, but there’s no denying it looks and feels a lot more distinctive than the Passat. However, the big benefit comes from its hybrid powertrain, delivering useful savings over the conventionally powered Volkswagen. The smooth ride and capable chassis mean it’s also good to drive, and now more refined than ever.
First win against Golf and then against Passat, all in magazine traditionally very biased towards German vehicles (owned by Autobild). Is end of the world coming? :-)
Interesting numbers in that Auto Express article - the CO2 figures for both cars are way above the government figures. I don't see how the Prius can claim less than 100 g CO2 when it puts out 130 on a real world drive. Then again, I'd love to see NOx real vs test figures for both cars too.
Hybrids never really sold in Europe because diesels were seen as superior. Now after VW's deception device shenanigans and rising particulate emissions in cities, hybrids may be seen as a worthwhile alternative. It's funny that Lexus is the only major manufacturer pushing hybrids in Europe despite tiny sales, when everyone else was pushing diesel, and now Lexus can take advantage of the situation.
I'm also wondering why certain models don't make it to Europe and vice versa. The ES300h isn't available there but the GS300h and IS300h are.
My guess is that the Europeans favour driving dynamics and a GS300h and IS300h would appeal to them more than a FWD luxury hybrid that favours smooth, comfortable ride.
A stereotype maybe? I see a lot of cheapo 520d and E200d models in Europe as company cars and repmobiles, not much driving dynamics in those models. The Passat definitely isn't a driver's car either. I can't fathom why someone would buy a low-spec BMW for badge snobbery reasons when the same amount of money could get a very nice Mondeo or other FWD sedans.
Interesting numbers in that Auto Express article - the CO2 figures for both cars are way above the government figures. I don't see how the Prius can claim less than 100 g CO2 when it puts out 130 on a real world drive. Then again, I'd love to see NOx real vs test figures for both cars too.
Hybrids never really sold in Europe because diesels were seen as superior. Now after VW's deception device shenanigans and rising particulate emissions in cities, hybrids may be seen as a worthwhile alternative. It's funny that Lexus is the only major manufacturer pushing hybrids in Europe despite tiny sales, when everyone else was pushing diesel, and now Lexus can take advantage of the situation.
I'm also wondering why certain models don't make it to Europe and vice versa. The ES300h isn't available there but the GS300h and IS300h are.
They have to claim whatever the government test mandate.
Hybrids have very small NOx figures, they are not even measured against EU law. New diesels officially have 15x-20x more under EU6 strict emission test, but this is not measurable during test drive (not without some huge equipment).
As to Hybrids being sold in Europe, I think Toyota sold 210k last year, more than in the USA.
But this has nothing to do with diesel scandal, it is not affecting sales of diesels in Europe at all. Just people seeing benefit of hybrid drive in Toyota vehicles.
04-08-16, 11:37 AM
I wouldn't go back to a non-hybrid after driving the ES300h for a few years. The mechanicals aren't complex, the ancient Greeks had planetary gearsets 2000 years ago in the Antikhytera Mechanism, but the electronics to control electrical and mechanical power flow are pretty fancy stuff.
