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I was hoping Toyota would also bring a Limited to the show along with the SE. I'm curious to see the new wheels on the Limited and what the chrome accented grill will look like. Also, I'm very anxious to see the brown leather interior.
They did bring a Limited Hybrid to the show. For some reason, this didn't receive much attention and had to be dug up from the hidden end of the internet. The chrome doesn't look too bad. Perhaps it's a bit much though. I think I like the SE's black slats.
They did bring a Limited Hybrid to the show. For some reason, this didn't receive much attention and had to be dug up from the hidden end of the internet. The chrome doesn't look too bad. Perhaps it's a bit much though. I think I like the SE's black slats.
They did bring a Limited Hybrid to the show. For some reason, this didn't receive much attention and had to be dug up from the hidden end of the internet. The chrome doesn't look too bad. Perhaps it's a bit much though. I think I like the SE's black slats.
looking good.... they are going to sell a ton of these.
For some reason they seem to be carrying over the 3 year old Chrometec wheels for the Limited. C'mon Toyota. Part of a refresh is new wheels across all trims.
Anyone have any experience with non-hybrid start/stop engines? I think this is a first for Toyota. I'm wondering whether the AC and the power steering still work when you are sitting in traffic and the engine stops. I've heard that the engines don't actually stop that often. Do you have to adjust and lift off the brake a little sooner when you are making that left turn across traffic? Is this really a useful feature or simply a fuel economy rating gimmick that I'm going to want to turn off?
Anyone have any experience with non-hybrid start/stop engines?
I don't have experience with non-hybrid automatic start/stop systems, just hybrid ones on my ES Hybrid. But as an engineer, this is a topic that interests me.
Originally Posted by StatCoder
I think this is a first for Toyota.
This will be a first for Toyota in North America but they have had it in Japan for some time, and, of course, on their hybrid cars for 20 years now.
Originally Posted by StatCoder
I'm wondering whether the AC and the power steering still work when you are sitting in traffic and the engine stops. I've heard that the engines don't actually stop that often.
You will likely lose any accessories that run off the engine, including any electrical (HVAC, power steering) and hydraulic ones. Heating or air conditioning may be a problem but you won't need power steering with the car stopped. Electrical accessories should come back as soon as the engine starts up again but hydraulic ones may take some time for the pump to get up pressure.
I have heard, though, that the engine will only automatically turn off if conditions are right, including warm engine, no great electrical loads (so heating or air conditioning on high will probably prevent the engine from shutting off).
Originally Posted by StatCoder
Do you have to adjust and lift off the brake a little sooner when you are making that left turn across traffic?
You are supposed to be able the car as you normally would; everything else should be automatic. But, of course, as you become familiar with the stop/start system, your driving habits may change a little bit (my hybrid driving habits are a bit different from my normal car driving habits). Just drive normally, even turning through intersections.
Each automaker's automatic stop/start systems are different, in timing (when the engine turns off) and how rough they are as the engine turns off and on. If the engine turns off too soon (when you are coasting, for instance, rather than after you have come to a complete and definite stop), that will affect how jerky the engine feels (and how upset you become with the system). That said, I have been generally impressed with how smooth the stop/start system is on my Hybrid.
Originally Posted by StatCoder
Is this really a useful feature or simply a fuel economy rating gimmick that I'm going to want to turn off?
If you do not drive much in stop-and-go traffic, if you do not come to a complete stop often, you may not notice much improvement in fuel efficiency. But if stops are longer and you tend to wait a rather long time for the light to change, there will probably be a noticeable improvement in fuel efficiency. At these extremes, the automatic stop/start system will probably not bother you that much (especially if it is NOT a rough stop and start).
If, however, your stops are frequent but relatively short, you may find the system to be rough and bothersome as the engine is continually shutting off and back on. If this is your normal driving situation, you may want to turn off the stop/start system.
Anyone have any experience with non-hybrid start/stop engines? I think this is a first for Toyota. I'm wondering whether the AC and the power steering still work when you are sitting in traffic and the engine stops. I've heard that the engines don't actually stop that often. Do you have to adjust and lift off the brake a little sooner when you are making that left turn across traffic? Is this really a useful feature or simply a fuel economy rating gimmick that I'm going to want to turn off?
My BMW has auto stop-start (yes, "A$$"). The A/C shuts down when the car stops, as does the power steering. Also, if you are sitting at a particularly long light, the engine will re-start after a minute or two. A tug on the steering wheel, or a lift of the brake pedal restarts the car--if I'm the first one at the light, or at a stop sign on a busy road, I will pull the steering wheel to start the car back up, because there will be a slight hesitation if you are trying to take off in hurry. There is also a off switch for the system. There are certain conditions where the system automatically overrides--the first few minutes after the initial start up of the car; extreme cold; on a hill over X% grade.
I can't really say how much gas is saved--there are studies that it's 5-10%.
I would absolutely not use the start stop feature here in South Florida. One minute sitting in a closed car with no AC could be the difference between being hot and cooking. I know some manufacturers have electric motors coupled with a beefier battery to power the electronics while the engine is off. I wonder which tech Toyota will use and whether that tech will be shared with Lexus over here in the US, as the press photos of the redesigned 3IS shows signs of stop start tech.
I can't imagine this constant shutting and restarting the engine is good for the engine, engine mounts and to a less extent the structural rigidity of the car itself. It might be fine when the car is new but in the longer run...There are quite a bit of centrifugal force or torquing through the car when an engine stops and starts, especially for a big and heavy engine like that. I would turn it off.
I would absolutely not use the start stop feature here in South Florida. One minute sitting in a closed car with no AC could be the difference between being hot and cooking. I know some manufacturers have electric motors coupled with a beefier battery to power the electronics while the engine is off. I wonder which tech Toyota will use and whether that tech will be shared with Lexus over here in the US, as the press photos of the redesigned 3IS shows signs of stop start tech.
Probably will be both a beefier starter motor and beefier battery to handle the constant stops and starts. As these systems become more widespread and accepted, automakers will probably switch to mild-hybrid systems, using beltless engines (as Toyota hybrids are now), switching anything that is hydraulically powered over to electrical power and powering all electrical accessories off a (second) battery or supercapacitor. That will allow the engine to shut off without affecting accessories.
Regulatory fuel consumption measurements would also have to change to take into account longer stops where the engine may actually shut off. Neither the EPA test nor the European test take this into account now. Because these stop/start systems are not tested for fuel consumption now, there is no "official" indication of how much they save on fuel, and so there is no incentive for people to buy them; without the demand, automakers will not supply.
Probably will be both a beefier starter motor and beefier battery to handle the constant stops and starts. As these systems become more widespread and accepted, automakers will probably switch to mild-hybrid systems, using beltless engines (as Toyota hybrids are now), switching anything that is hydraulically powered over to electrical power and powering all electrical accessories off a (second) battery or supercapacitor. That will allow the engine to shut off without affecting accessories.
Right--I may be naïve, but remember that manufacturers still have warranties to honor, and if these systems are prone to breakdown, they will get flooded with more warranty repairs, which costs a lot more than just installing a heavier duty starter, etc., in the first place.
I'm interested in trying it out. When I'm sitting in line at the drive-through window, now, I think that it would be nice if the engine wasn't idling. Also, I wonder if it will help with idling while parked in the summer just to keep the AC on by stopping the motor periodically.
Whenever new technology like this comes out there is always resistance. I'm old enough to remember debating the merits of automatic transmissions, airbags, ABS brakes, even power steering.
03-23-16, 05:24 PM
I know some manufacturers have electric motors coupled with a beefier battery to power the electronics while the engine is off. I wonder which tech Toyota will use and whether that tech will be shared with Lexus over here in the US, as the press photos of the redesigned 3IS shows signs of stop start tech.
