mmarshall

Curbstoning laws in the states (if enforced) should also put somewhat of a damper on this......."Curbstoning" being defined as a person who does not have a formal auto-sales license buying and re-selling more than a certain number of cars a year, off the cuff, for profit.

MattyG

So does BMW have a non-premium family sedan architecture that it uses on a cross-platform basis in the luxury segment? Context is everything in headlines, even if they make you happy down at the Lexus dealership.

The luxury segment is divided into a pie chart in itself but generally average transaction prices certainly do provide some indicators. Do you tell the registration clerk at the local motor vehicle registry how much you paid for your Lexus NX, ES, or RX?

ydooby

It's called the X1, of which the FF platform shared with the 1-series, the 2-series AT/GT, all MINIs, and a several future models in the making.

yakim

A few European car dealers punch the previous year models as sold and convert them into used cars. Not Lexus though. Car registrations is what matters

natnut

What "enthusiast" factor is there to a 4 cylinder 320/328/528i ? Aren't those models the vast majority of BMW sales?

geko29

By this logic, the Camaro and Mustang should be disqualified as pony cars, since the majority of their sales are of the 4- and 6-cylinder variants. Especially considering the 4-banger 328i gets to 60 a half second quicker than the V6 Camaro. The 2015+ Mustang Ecoboost (also a 4-banger) is able to match the 5.5 second time of the 328i. I'd disagree with you here, and say there's plenty of fun to be had in cars this quick.

Same goes for the Challenger/Charger, and most performance vehicles coming from a high-volume marque. Offering a decontented or lower-powered version of a popular model to increase sales does not mean the model can not live up to what it's intended to be. In many cases, the increased revenue from the higher sales volume can subsidize costs that otherwise would have been difficult to justify for the top model.

MattyG

Lol. All mainstream family sedans I'm sure. MINI is a mainstream family sedan? Really? That been happening for the last 40 years or what? Please don't insult anyone's intelligence. There's a market for Lexus and it's one of the best brands for a number of factors but headlines praising sales always make me take a pause. Even if it means that diehard fanboys and Lexus dealers love it.

natnut

My point is that RWD does not automatically = enthusiast when the car is underpowered for its weight. Current generation 3/5 series are also mediocre handlers compared to the Lexus IS/Caddy ATS/Lexus GS etc.

For the vast vast majority of BMW clientele, RWD = poseur rather than enthusiast.

So posters trying to herald BMW as some bastion of driving enthusiasts need to take a reality check. A 320i is as "enthusiast" as a FWD Lexus ES. Both are volume sellers for their respective brands. A 320i sale does not make BMW more enthusiast oriented than Lexus LOL.

spwolf

well, this is not the point of this thread, but lets go with this.

Do you realize that:
1. BMW sells more SUVs in USA than Sedans?
2. Most of their Sedan sales are 4cly?

So what does "a dedicated German sports sedan company" mean? A company that sells more SUVs than Sedans and a company where majority of "sports sedan" sales are 4cly?

Only thing that matters for luxury when it comes to what you are selling is average transaction price... and Lexus is very close to BMW, with MB being better than both. There used to be a large difference long time ago, not so much anymore.

My0gr81

This

I was a BMW guy through and through. While the e46 chassis had its issues, they were known and documented. It was a driver's chassis first and foremost. The e60 was also driver oriented, but geared to the "executive driver". After that, BMW moved to the mass market, cost cutting, mush feeling suspension/sterring response, and Lexus amped up the driver feel on the IS/GS platforms.

Unless one wants true M series (M2/M3), everything else BMW sells today is not for enthusiasts, it is for the mass market (2, 3 and 5 series) and for the luxury market (7 and 8 series).

chikoo

This. Which is why I went shopping for a used car last year, the e46 zhp felt like what a BMW stands for even though it is 10 years old.

Aron9000

I think BMW cut their budget on development for new models and just said, "eh, good enough on the suspension/chassis/ride". Even driving old BMW's, like the E38, E39, E36, they handle better and have a more connected feeling to the road. You can tell that BMW really sweated the chassis/suspension on those old cars.

Anyways, I think all of BMW's R&D money went away from their mainstream cars and into stupid niche models that nobody is going to buy like the i3 & i8. Or they spent all their R&D on redundant and ugly humpback model variants, along with making 20 versions of the Mini.

coolsaber

my 2Cs this doesnt matter. As long as your in the black and moving units without factory support your golden.

In regards to bimmer, "punching" was exposed by MB a couple yrs back, dealers got scolded. But its stupid. BMW demands to be the leader in sales by hook or crook Wink wink, so the dealers do it, and then they get scolded for doing as they are told lol.

BMWs are smart little fs.

First they run the Ultimate driving machine which engrains this onto potential customers, and customers heads regardless of how it actually drives.

Second they have realized platform sharing is a must since now the 1 series SAVs are going FWD/Mini

Third, BMW is on a fuel efficency craze. CFRP stop start systems, downsizing engines

Fourth BMW no longer offers a standard spec/base model with good driving dynamics. You pay to play

basically BMW offered nothing for free before except a good handling car. Now everything from the dash trim to handling everything is an option.

MattyG

That's a general consensus and not overly in dispute. So agreed in some ways but that's only on steering feel. That's the big complaint. Not on handling. Under-powered? You mean base engines? The IS250 has received a lot of complaints in that department.

A 320i is the same as a Camry-based ES? That's quite a leap of faith there. I highly doubt BMW buyers look at the 320i that seriously but if an ES can beat it, I'd like to see that on a track.

Yes. Most manufacturers sell more crossovers. (SUV is incorrect because it would imply bof trucks). Ever seen a comparison between a RAV4 vs an X3 where the Bimmer didn't win out? Sedans with 4 cylinders? You implying that these are plodding, tractor engine 4's vs turbo-4's?

I wouldn't even bother with this other than it's a facetious straw man argument. You mean the Bimmer X series vehicles didn't get good reviews for their sportiness vs the RX?

But it's always a problem when headline posting gets questioned. Here's an obnoxious tilted test ala TG style to mollify some posters for snits and giggles.

My0gr81

facetious straw man argument = BMW fan boy posting on a Lexus enthusiast's forum

Baiting with open ended comments, and then dissecting replies selectively to further their arguments.