RNM GS3

Honestly Lexus currently offers 3 models of somewhat sporty cars - IS, GS and RC.
All are well underpowered even in F trim.

The people bashing BMW driving dynamics have not driven a properly equipped BMW.
BMW has purposely made its REGULAR models drive more MB and Lexus like. This was done to please the general public that *****ed about rough suspensions and tight steering that actually needed effort to turn.

You want sporty BMW then just get Msport model and get the Msport suspension, this is a must.
In addition, BMW is the only mass LUXURY manufacturer to offer MANUAL equipped sport sedans and coupes.
It also has an incredible M performance line of accessories for ALL models including SUVs that include power, exhaust, brakes, susp, cosmetic etc.
Not to mention European Delivery, Performance Center Delivery in US, Performance Driving School etc.

Lets praise BMW for stuff it does well for enthusiast community and hope that one day Lexus can offer half of what BMW currently provides for enthusiast clients.

spwolf

you do realize that BMW does not sell many 6cly sedans anymore, but that they mostly sell 4cly engines these days?

spwolf

Rav4? ES350? lol.

Why are you comparing 4cly Rav4 to X3 and what does it have to do with Lexus? And ES350 to 335i?

Sad truth is that "german sport sedan company" sells more SUV's than sport sedans, and that most engines it sells in "german sport sedans" are 4cly engines. On the other hand, Lexus sport sedans are predominately sold with V6 engines. And I can send you few links where they beat BMW's in comparos, if you wish.

BrownPride

I'm a huge BMW guy too and have had a couple. I've been disappointed with some of their cars ever since the launch of the E89 Z4 back in 2009. They're all beautiful, luxurious, packed with tech, still have class-leading powertrains, etc. but they've softened their suspensions and steering to appeal to the masses. My folks have had 2 E70 X5s, the latest being an ///M sport with ///M performance engine and exhaust tuning from the factory and when it came time for an upgrade they were so letdown but the new F15 they just ended up keeping their current E70. Sure the heavy steering is an inconvenience at low speeds, sure the stiff suspension with 20" wheels isn't the most comfortable ride, but it's a d*mn BMW. People who want something soft and fluffy can go take a hike and get an ugly egg-shaped ML/GLE.

With all that being said, I have noticed that equipping them with the right options makes them feel more how BMWs are supposed to feel, but it's still a far cry from the days where an entry-level 328i could make one fall in love with the brand as it did for me. I'm not getting rid of my E90 since the F30 feels like like a Lexus in comparison. It ticks me off when I see so many people picking up these cars for the status when in reality such people are just watering down the brand for guys like you and me. I know so many people who've never even used the manual shift mode since they're scared. Call me extreme but I love the rock-hard steering and performance run flats on my E90, I can feel every d*mn imperfection and groove in the road and love it. That's how a BMW is supposed to feel.

BrownPride

That's false. Only the 320, 328, and 528 have 4-bangers. Every other sedan has at least an I6 with V8 variants.

coolsaber

the vehicles mentioned are the bread and butter of BMW, aka sold in the highest volume.

BMW has become two lines of thought:

Economy mass sales:
N20 4 Cylinder

High Po train
I6 turbo v8

Astonishngly my SA says that overall the N20 was hated on, it sold more, and its been more reliable then the more espewive award winning N5- and N63w

peteharvey

That's a very silly comparison because the 335i 0-60 in 5.8 secs is NOT BMW's best seller; in fact the 335i sells in very small numbers.

The top selling BMW is in fact the 320i with only a paltry 181 BHP & 0-60 in some 7.5 secs.

The top selling ES350 V6 will in fact leave the top selling 320i four cylinder behind at the lights.

coolsaber

The same way the 320i will let the ES drop of corners


Again seriously top selling is marketing bs.

Finally the only reason people are cros shopping a 320i over an ES is value for money.
The 320i ES350 segment attracts one major demo: frugal shoppers.

They probs could afford a top level accord or camry, but would like o drive a more cooler base spec luxury badge. THe ES of vcourse is better value, but BMW is a better badge to drive.

peteharvey

But BMW says that handling isn't important anymore, and that linear acceleration of their new four cylinder turbos with their new deficient chassis - is more important now.
That really blows MattyG's argument out of the water.

http://www.zeroto60times.com/compare-cars/

Don't forget, the racing driver journalist in the YouTube video said the he'd have to "lose his reproductive organs" to fit in the back of the 3 Series.
.

Club Lexus Editor

Lexus is arguing that they, and not BMW, sold the most luxury cars in 2015. And at least some data is on their side.

Read the rest on the Club Lexus homepage. >>

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

I enjoyed my 328i loader, while hated every second behind the stupid 320i. The same detuned engine really really sucks.
But BMW still offer the best 4 cycl turbo while mated to the excellent 8 speed trans, just not the dumb 180hp version.

RNM GS3

This is completely false info.
BMW is still by far the most sport focused luxury car company out of MB, Audi, Lexus, Cadillac etc.

You guys do realize Lexus has only 1 coupe available, no convertibles, no roadsters, no grancoupes, no sport oriented SUVs, incomplete F lineup, no Manuals, no DCTs, no turbos and Zero aftermarket support from Lexus themselves to its customers.

BMW has all that and more.
Has it gone soft to get sales? Yes
Hast it *****d out ///M brand? Yes

But like i said - if overall Lexus would offer 50% what BMW does for "enthusiasts" i would be thrilled.
Its easy to nitpick but BMW still offers tremendous lineup of performance oriented cars.

Toys4RJill

I really don't understand what the big the deal is. BMW/MB/Audi all sell many of the cars for higher starting MSRPs, the LS starts at 25k under the BMW or MB. So Lexus won or did the lose, really makes no difference.

cino

iTrader: (1)

NO. Mercedes Benz is the most sport focused mainstream luxury.

Have you heard of SLR, SLS Gullwing, GT AMG (which crowned MT Driver's COTY)?

AMG and its beloved Black Series that blow everything M, F, RS, and V put out.

AMG Sport brand to go toe to toe with M performance, S line, F sport, V sport.

MB also take SUV coupe definition created by BMW a little too far.

If you consider off-roading a sport, which it is, Gelandewagon has 2 AMG flavor.

MB have just as big, probably bigger Tuner support.

My0gr81

Lesson for today:

Frugal enthusiasts = Lexus owner
Poseur enthusiasts = BMW owner
Real enthusiasts = MB owner

Given the choice between cheap, dumb and loaded, I guess all of us standing up for Lexus are cheap.