Future of Lexus discussion 2016
02-08-16, 07:33 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
Mike, I spent $44,000 on a minivan, so you don't have to sell me on minivans. I'm just relaying what my experience has been talking to my peers about minivans. My wife didn't want a minivan either, until she experienced how much easier life with the twins would be with one. I chose the van, not her. Many of our friends who do have minivans use the qualifier "I hate driving it but it makes life easier".
The FACT is, minivan sales are way down over the past 10 years. Carmakers and auto press alike agree that on the whole that minivans are in decline, and three row crossovers have made significant inroads into the minivan market. That's why Kia made the Sedona "more like a crossover", because that's what buyers want. What they NEED is a minivan, but people don't "WANT" them. That's why a Lexus minivan wouldn't work. A luxury car is a WANT purchase.
The FACT is, minivan sales are way down over the past 10 years. Carmakers and auto press alike agree that on the whole that minivans are in decline, and three row crossovers have made significant inroads into the minivan market. That's why Kia made the Sedona "more like a crossover", because that's what buyers want. What they NEED is a minivan, but people don't "WANT" them. That's why a Lexus minivan wouldn't work. A luxury car is a WANT purchase.
02-08-16, 07:53 PM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
ok guys, give it a rest on minivans. lexus isn't doing one.
02-08-16, 09:14 PM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
lol no I meant they are not entering the market quite aggressive enough, the front ends are more than aggressive enough for me. I do like the IS from afar, big head turner.
All their market entry products are too sensible, playing it safe, launching it while knowing that in the back of their minds that while they might not blow current leaders out of the market, the product will sell and its better than taking a leap and fail.
The CT, NX, RC are (in my opinion) the prime examples of this. When Lexus first launched the LS they did not say "lets make something almost as good as the S class, but sensible enough that some people who thought they are getting ripped off will get the LS", they launched a car that was pretty much in every conceivable way better than the competition.
The CT (not sure what it is), is not as hot as a hot hatch, its not very practical, it is literally a good looking upper market prius. NX did not blow the x3 out of the water, RC is same etc.
All their market entry products are too sensible, playing it safe, launching it while knowing that in the back of their minds that while they might not blow current leaders out of the market, the product will sell and its better than taking a leap and fail.
The CT, NX, RC are (in my opinion) the prime examples of this. When Lexus first launched the LS they did not say "lets make something almost as good as the S class, but sensible enough that some people who thought they are getting ripped off will get the LS", they launched a car that was pretty much in every conceivable way better than the competition.
The CT (not sure what it is), is not as hot as a hot hatch, its not very practical, it is literally a good looking upper market prius. NX did not blow the x3 out of the water, RC is same etc.
As for the RC, NX, they are good and decent within their class of peers, but most Lexus models are. I have not seen a Lexus win a comparison test for a while now, but I dont really think they need. They need to be good enough and hit on what the Lexus buyer is looking for and that is lower value pricing compared to BMW/Audi/MB, nice interiors, and reliability. I just wish they would update the engines and maybe offer a V12 LS. But my parents don't seem to mind their 3.5 engine which they had in their car before the Lexus they had. I think most people don't even know Lexus is using older engines. But hope is not lost, the RC/GS got a 4 banger turbo which I never thought would happen. And I didn't see the detuned 3.5 coming for the IS300AWD.
02-09-16, 06:02 AM
#94
Value pricing is up in the air, because I think the difference in MSRP is not really that far apart now, and specially financing options are so widely available that monthly payments between brands can really close the gap.
Reliability is always nice to have, but despite some horror story, modern cars are almost mostly reliable now. Sure over 150k mile the chance of lexus coming out top is probably higher, but would a german car leave me stranded? It's less likely today than 10-15 years ago.
When I went car shopping again I looked at Lexus, but ended up with a land rover. I would of never choose a land rover due to reliability, but since I dont intend to keep it beyond the warranty period, the only differences really is probably the random rattles, and modern lexus has their fair share of that too.
I would really like to see lexus come out with a vehicle that is class leading, makes me want one as my next car etc. If I wanted to drop 80k for a RCF, I would buy a M3 / M4 or C63, they are so much better than the RCF its not even a battle. If I really wanted a economical hatch that has convenience I would get a focus ST etc
02-09-16, 06:22 AM
#95
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
The CT was an OK car at best. I had a lease and would not ever get one again. Our Matrix is so much more useful, powerful, and has more utility.
As for the RC, NX, they are good and decent within their class of peers, but most Lexus models are. I have not seen a Lexus win a comparison test for a while now, but I dont really think they need. They need to be good enough and hit on what the Lexus buyer is looking for and that is lower value pricing compared to BMW/Audi/MB, nice interiors, and reliability. I just wish they would update the engines and maybe offer a V12 LS. But my parents don't seem to mind their 3.5 engine which they had in their car before the Lexus they had. I think most people don't even know Lexus is using older engines. But hope is not lost, the RC/GS got a 4 banger turbo which I never thought would happen. And I didn't see the detuned 3.5 coming for the IS300AWD.
As for the RC, NX, they are good and decent within their class of peers, but most Lexus models are. I have not seen a Lexus win a comparison test for a while now, but I dont really think they need. They need to be good enough and hit on what the Lexus buyer is looking for and that is lower value pricing compared to BMW/Audi/MB, nice interiors, and reliability. I just wish they would update the engines and maybe offer a V12 LS. But my parents don't seem to mind their 3.5 engine which they had in their car before the Lexus they had. I think most people don't even know Lexus is using older engines. But hope is not lost, the RC/GS got a 4 banger turbo which I never thought would happen. And I didn't see the detuned 3.5 coming for the IS300AWD.
When Lexus wants to make a great car they can. Unfortunately I think their FWD platform is pedestrian at best. I wish they would pony up the money and make a proper X5 competitor.
02-09-16, 06:40 AM
#96
I would really like to see lexus come out with a vehicle that is class leading, makes me want one as my next car etc. If I wanted to drop 80k for a RCF, I would buy a M3 / M4 or C63, they are so much better than the RCF its not even a battle. If I really wanted a economical hatch that has convenience I would get a focus ST etc
Well, IS, GS and NX have all won comparos against BMW's, MB's and whatever else. RC-F has won latest comparo against M4 in CAR magazine, which is all about enthusiasts. It just shows that numbers dont tell half of the story:
https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/t...49/#post-14141
#1 - Lexus RC-F (over #3 M4 and #2 Mustang V8) - Baffled? Dont be, the maths are compelling: Nissan GTR styling and tech + previous gen V8 M3 bombast and exuberance = winner
02-09-16, 06:57 AM
#97
I am just going by my own experience of driving these cars... the RCF is just too heavy whereas my friend's new M3 feels so nimble and light. At the end of the day its about the experience and how the car makes you feel right? I know it differs from person to person, but that was my perspective after driving them. My friends and I are part of the "crazy people" that drive the living snot out of our car on the street, back when I had a lotus we did a 3k mile round trip over 5 days to the tail and back, and last year during our bear mountain run one of the aston in our group actually spun off the cliff (thankfully he didnt die, but that toned us down real fast lol). And the driving feel, feedback, and fun matters more than absolute numbers
The RCF is essentially a 2 seater coupe, and (at least to me) if I wanted a coupe I want a sports car for fun drives. If I want a heavy luxo barge there are other options out there.
For also similar reason I also prefer more expensive / slower cars than the GTR.
The RCF is essentially a 2 seater coupe, and (at least to me) if I wanted a coupe I want a sports car for fun drives. If I want a heavy luxo barge there are other options out there.
For also similar reason I also prefer more expensive / slower cars than the GTR.
Last edited by mikez; 02-09-16 at 07:01 AM.
02-09-16, 09:11 AM
#98
And the driving feel, feedback, and fun matters more than absolute numbers
The RCF is essentially a 2 seater coupe, and (at least to me) if I wanted a coupe I want a sports car for fun drives. If I want a heavy luxo barge there are other options out there.
For also similar reason I also prefer more expensive / slower cars than the GTR.
The RCF is essentially a 2 seater coupe, and (at least to me) if I wanted a coupe I want a sports car for fun drives. If I want a heavy luxo barge there are other options out there.
For also similar reason I also prefer more expensive / slower cars than the GTR.
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