Aron9000

I think one reason the GS doesn't sell is that a lot of customers end up buying an ES instead. The ES has a bigger back seat and trunk, looks similar, and costs less. Most people who buy a Lexus aren't enthusiasts, driving dynamics are not a priority to them. They just want a nice car to commute in or drive on long, boring straight interstate trips. IMO the ES is way more in tune with the traditional Lexus customer than the GS, even though I think the GS is a night and day superior car in terms of the chassis and build quality.

My0gr81

Hence the dilemma for Lexus:

Offer a compelling class for class feature set a price lower than competition, and it gets compared to the lower class offering from the competition.

Offer a class for class upgrade over the competition at the same price, but over a longer life cycle, and it get beat towards the end as being ``long in the tooth``.

Stroock639

which is why i think all these low profile tire sporty models coming out is not the direction lexus should be going. practically everyone is hoping on this trend with their aggressive styling and 26 inch wheels. lexus could set their own trend by simply continuing to build the best damn luxury cruisers around.

i've said it before but anyone who thinks otherwise needs to drive a good LS 400. having sporty is good, but only by choice. go get your little sports car to use on a sunday, but even as an enthusiast of fast cars there's no need to have it on a daily basis. i'm perfectly happy to get into my car and drive it to california right now (well not right now it's snowing) because it's just absolute comfort, while combining the awesome kick of a V8. there aren't many cars currently out there i've been in that i could say that about. when at the stealership i've sat in new lexuses and they're not as comfortable.

mikez

but no one wants to risk becoming the next buick / lincoln etc.

Its hard telling a retention story / strategy as a public company and one of the largest player in your industry. Watch what happens to apple stock when all they have to say is "hey we sold the exact same number of iPhone 7 as the iPhone 6!"

Everyone wants to tell a growth story, which means you do enough to retain your current customers (keep cars like ES in play, kill the ones no one wants) and start to put out product that is all the hype and rage (sportier offering, big rims, sharp angles etc).

Stroock639

i totally get that they want to get rid of their boring old person golf course image, i'm just saying i'm sure they could do that but still make soft, cushy cars

mmarshall

What is often overlooked is that soft cushy cars are not just for old people or the country club. That is one of several inaccurate stereotypes that have been fostered in the auto press. In fact, the softest, quietest cushiest-riding car I ever owned was a big Buick when I was in college. I loved it.

mmarshall

Actually, both Buick and Lincoln have been getting back on their feet the last few years.....Buick more so than Lincoln, though the MKC and latest MKX have been good recent starts for Lincoln, and the upcoming Continental promises to be quite interesting.

Toys4RJill

I would like to see Lexus sell a minvan. I think it would sell like hot cakes. Lexus doesn't have to copy MB or BMW for everything. they could first in the luxury minivan segment.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

$60K+ minivan?
A first in the segment but Minivan sales are down 50% the last 10 years,though.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...t-decade-well/

Stroock639

hey mikez said buick not me

problem with stereotypes is that they're pretty much all rooted in some sort of truth... i definitely want the cars to get faster, i'm not happy about how easily a modern S550 can crush an LS 460. some smooth turbos would suit an LS nicely i think, but if N/A is possible i still say go with it. boost does feel good though...

mikez

Right, and the two text book way to go for new customer is to segment (again) or to change your appeal. It seems lexus is doing both, the CT and NX, and partially RCF, are segments it did not play in while the new design language is trying to get out of their old image.

While I dont think they are bold / aggressive enough, it is a very safe and text book way to go about things. Not rocking the boat, dont want to acquire 1 new customers they never had before but lose a customer that they've had for the past 10 years etc.

mmarshall

Yes....I was replying as a general principle, not necessarily on specific brands, though the thread-topic, of course, is Lexus.

SW17LS

The only real overlap in the Lexus lineup is the ES and GS. When someone who isn't an enthusiast walks into a dealer and says "I want a midsized one", at BMW that buyer buys a low optioned 5 Series, at Mercedes they buy a low optioned E Class, at Audi its a low optioned A6...at Lexus its an ES...not a GS, and thats why sales of the GS have never really been huge.

Not to say the GS "doesn't sell", their targets in the US for the GS are 20-24k units a year, and it sells that.

Any argument about making the ES RWD or dropping it are for naut. Its a huge profit center for Lexus, it sells 75k units a year on average and they're able to take advantage of a downmarket powertrain and platform which keeps costs very low. Now they're making them in the US which keeps costs even lower. That vehicle isn't going to RWD anytime soon, and its not going to get dropped from the lineup either. Making the GS bigger makes no sense either since its supposed to be a sport sedan, and one of the reasons why it has class leading handling is that it is a little smaller than something like a 5 Series which has to appeal to that ES buyer too.

What I would like to see is the ES be an all around better car, better interior materials, more sophisticated suspension, perhaps front biased AWD. But, its going to be a transverse Camry/Avalon based car.

Just to put it in perspective, they sell more ES sedans than the IS, GS and LS combined. A lot more.

But thats just it...they do. If you'd driven something like a 4GS with AVS you would see that the new platforms while being sharper and more dynamic are still very complient and quiet.

For instance, you lowered your LS, but bigger rims on it and removed parts of the exhaust to make it what? Firmer, louder, better looking, sportier. Thats in direct conflict with your desire for them to go back to making cars like your LS400 when you in turn made modifications to your LS400 to make it more like the newer cars.

I would bet money that my 2013 GS with AVS rode better and was quieter than your LS400 with those modifications...I'm certain my LS460 is.

Technology is getting to the point where you can have both.

I'm a minivan owner, a Lexus owner, and I care about quality, style, ride comfort, etc. If anybody was a buyer for a "Lexus minivan" it would be me. I wouldn't buy one.

People that are proponents of such a thing either don't have kids, or aren't predisposed to have a minivan anyways. A luxury purchase requires a certain amount of vanity, and buying a minivan is an exercise in eschewing that vanity. They're not stylish, they're not classy. They're utility, and when you buy one you make a decision to value that utility over style and class.

Somebody who is going to spend $60k+ on a family hauler is going to buy a 3 row crossover, not a "Lexus minivan".

mmarshall

The ES, at one time, DID have better interior materials.....along with more solid doors, better sound insulation, higher-profile tires, and a smoother ride. Remember the superb 4Gen version? That was back in the days before we saw the cost-cutting on the 5 and 6Gen models.

Toys4RJill

If Toyota can make the Lexus ES350/Toyota Avalon coexist, I'm sure a Lexus MV350 (I named it lol) minivan will work. Lexus has a lot of female buyers so I'm sure they would sell. Perhaps make the Lexus a Hybrid model while leave the Sienna a gas model, even though I do not recommend hybrids.