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^ I always find it funny and weird how the English love their convertibles. Back in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's there were so many choices for small British roadsters. Some of them didn't even have glass roll up windows and the tops were pretty crude/leak prone compared to now days. Yet the weather in England sucks, rains over half the year, if its not raining, its overcast and looking like it is going to rain. There is maybe two months in a good year worth of warm, sunny days for you to put the top down.
Yeah the English are definitely bonkers when it comes to what works and what doesn't. But the other side of the coin from that era is the passion, styling and real leather and wood.
I wish I'd had a camera back then but this was a brief affair with a troubled and completely unreliable Triumph GT6+. Yes it had a six cylinder engine. yes it had a 4 speed with overdrive. These were hardtops not convertibles, but you get the idea.
It was about the smooth six cylinder and the go-kart like handling. You sat low and you rowed your own gears. A Miata will never match this in quite the same way.
^ I always find it funny and weird how the English love their convertibles. Back in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's there were so many choices for small British roadsters. Some of them didn't even have glass roll up windows and the tops were pretty crude/leak prone compared to now days. Yet the weather in England sucks, rains over half the year, if its not raining, its overcast and looking like it is going to rain. There is maybe two months in a good year worth of warm, sunny days for you to put the top down.
I think you hit it on the head. They have so FEW decent weather days they want to enjoy the ones they do have to the fullest. That means driving with the top down. When I had my S5 Cab my US co-workers said "that's nice" but my co-worker from the UK went bonkers and said that was the car he had always wanted.
Smooth and powerful 4-cylinder, V6 and V8 diesels (Diesels will always beat hybrids, not matter how hard you try to argue, moan and throw whatever tantrum, the truth is: diesel > hybrid. Plain and simple), F versions of every single model in the line; from the CT to the LX and Audi and Mercedes are doing well with their A3 Sedan and CLA, respectively and BMW is about to join the game with a sedan version of the 1-series, so Lexus should make a sedan version of the CT as well.
Which is why so many hypercars are now diesels and not hybrids?? Wait.........
If diesel were so superior from a pure performance standpoint, why aren't the top super/hypercar makers buidling more diesels? Instead, many super/hypercars are going hybrid.
And let's look at the writing on the wall : many European cities are looking to ban/deter diesels within their city limits and VW is seemingly abandoning diesels for hybrid. Seems like these diesel experts know that diesel is reaching its limits while hybrid is just getting started.
Smooth and powerful 4-cylinder, V6 and V8 diesels (Diesels will always beat hybrids, not matter how hard you try to argue, moan and throw whatever tantrum, the truth is: diesel > hybrid. Plain and simple), ....
I know this is a future of Lexus discussion not a diesel vs hybrid one, but Toyota never drank the diesel cool aid for passenger vehicles. Euro manufacturers hyped it so much that even the government regulators where fooled (benefit of doubt here) to look the other way on emission testing results. I work with a lot of Euros and they couldn't stop themselves from extolling the virtues of diesel and they though NA's were nuts to not be on the band wagon.
Because I rather drive a car rather than drive a truck.
Because a car-based / crossover utility vehicle is easier to get into compared with a body-on-frame utility vehicle, for my rather petite wife, my young son and my aging parents.
Because my wife would be intimidated about driving a truck.
Because a car-based, FWD-based UV is more space-efficient than a truck-based UV. The crossover will be lighter than the truck and smaller than the equivalent truck. The crossover (especially if I can get a hybrid model at a price I can afford) will be much more fuel efficient than the truck.
Because I do not need a truck and would much rather drive something I need than something I do not.
The argument that somehow a 3 row crossover is not needed because of the BOF GX is ridiculous. All you have to do is look at the success of 3 row crossovers all over the industry, the shift away from BOF to three row crossover for the former heavyweights of the class (the Explorer and Pathfinder) to know that Americans want three row crossovers, not truck based SUVs. Regardless of what you say though some people just won't get it. Minivans are all well and good, obviously I chose a minivan, but LOTS of consumers don't want minivans.
A 3 row luxury crossover from Lexus is the biggest glaring omission in their lineup IMHO.
Minivans are all well and good, obviously I chose a minivan, but LOTS of consumers don't want minivans.
Lots of consumers have also found, though, that, once they have one, their minds can and do change.
Although I don't drive one (I'm single and don't need a vehicle that large, I don't buy the idea that minivans are anathema, even to auto enthusiasts...that is an idea that has been primarily fostered in the auto press. I do know some single people, though (yes, males) who do own and drive them simply to carry their equipment around (musicians, photographers, etc...). You and your wife, of course, have found out how handy they can be.
While it is not a pressing need (the Sienna, Odyssey, Sedona, and Chrysler minivans pretty much have the present market covered, with the Nissan Quest only a very minor player)...Lexus would be wise, IMO, to consider an upmarket version of the Sienna, at least on a trial basis. it would not cost a lot to develop, and it could be easily dropped if it did not prove successful.
Lots of consumers have also found, though, that, once they have one, their minds can and do change.
Although I don't drive one (I'm single and don't need a vehicle that large, I don't buy the idea that minivans are anathema, even to auto enthusiasts...that is an idea that has been primarily fostered in the auto press. I do know some single people, though (yes, males) who do own and drive them simply to carry their equipment around (musicians, photographers, etc...). You and your wife, of course, have found out how handy they can be.
While it is not a pressing need (the Sienna, Odyssey, Sedona, and Chrysler minivans pretty much have the present market covered, with the Nissan Quest only a very minor player)...Lexus would be wise, IMO, to consider an upmarket version of the Sienna, at least on a trial basis. it would not cost a lot to develop, and it could be easily dropped if it did not prove successful.
I find my minivan far superior to my RX as a family vehicle. It's just so big and utilitarian. But it also handles better than the RX that I had
Lexus should make a minivan. I would seriously consider getting it.
Here's a high-level sedan/coupe breakdown. I ignored the performance series (e.g., M, AMG, F-Sport). The base prices listed are directly from the manufacturer's websites.
Mercedes has, in my opinion, FOUR (4) real sedans, the CLA, C, E and S. BMW has THREE (3), where the Gran Turismo's are nothing more than ugly hatchbacks of those respective series. Audi has FOUR (4) real sedans. Lexus has FOUR (4) real sedans.
The coupe disparity is huge. Mercedes has FIVE (5) real coupes. BMW also has FIVE (5) real coupes. Audi and Lexus seem fairly similar in coupe numbers, but I counted the ISC hardtop.
Frankly, I think Lexus needs to separate the sedans more. Here's what I think they should do:
1. Make the IS cheaper in price to match the CLA, 3 and A3.
2. Leave the ES as is in regards to price and make it RWD imo.
3. Move the GS up and raise the price to $50k base. Increase interior space.
4. Move the LS up and raise the price to $80k base. Make them all L series or a new wheelbase that is longer than the base but maybe shorter than the existing L.
6. Make a four-door coupe and price it $70k.
It seems that you are trying to make comparisons based only on price, thus mismatching size classes and natural competitors.
The Mercedes-Benz CLA-Class, BMW 1-Series (which you forgot to list) and Audi A3 are FWD-based B-Class (sub-compact) cars; their competitor is the Lexus CT, not the IS. What Lexus is missing is a "CS", a FWD/AWD sedan based on the CT (now that MB and Audi are selling their small models as sedans and not hatchbacks). Perhaps we will see one when the 2Gen CT is introduced on the TNGA platform.
The Lexus IS is a RWD, C-segment (compact) car and its competitors are the Mercedes-Benz C-Class, the BMW 3-Series and the Audi A4, not the CLA and Audi A3.
The Lexus ES is a FWD, D-segment (mid-size), entry-level executive sedan with no real competitors from MB, BMW or Audi (perhaps the Audi A6 FWD model may be considered as a competitor).
If the ES was made a RWD car, it would then compete with its own sister car, the GS and likely lose sales. As one of the original 2 Lexus models (along with the LS), it sells extremely well (along with the RX) and tampering with its place in the market is a big risk.
Its rightful place is right where it is, as an aspirational vehicle just about the top models from Toyota (Avalon), Chevrolet (Impala), Buick (LaCrosse), Ford (Taurus) and other similar cars.
The Lexus GS is a RWD, D-segment (mid-size) car and its competitors are the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, the BMW 5-Series and the Audi A6, as you rightfully pointed out. The GS has always been aimed at this traditional RWD, mid-size, executive sedan. Why it does not sell in this meaty middle of the luxury car market is the question to be asked.
The Lexus LS is a RWD, F-segment (full-size luxury) car and its competitors are supposed to be the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, the BMW 7-Series and the Audi A8, but as it has not been really and truly updated in so long, it currently has no real competition from the German brands. We all await the new LS to take its rightful place at the top of the Lexus lineup.
I was looking at this purely from a price/class perspective. In my opinion, Lexus has a lot of overlap that tends to have a parasitic effect. Look at Mercedes and Audi, they clearly define class and price so that there isn't any overlap or risk of overlap. People think the ES should be shuttled entirely, whereas I just proposing a different solution.
I don't necessarily think making the ES RWD/AWD would have a negative impact on GS, assuming the GS grew in size, all the while remaining at the same relative price point. Price points are very important in how their models are lined up in my opinion and they build around them. Of course, the car/class has to match.
I think the LS will grow in both size and price, regardless of what happens below it, so that will obviously leave room for the other classes to adjust accordingly and place a clear and defined stamp on differentiation.
02-06-16, 05:06 PM
