blacksun

Uh -oh.....

Unlike VW's system, Daimler's software does not need to detect that the car is on a dynanometer. The required ambient temperature during the official EU emissions test is 22 degrees centigrade, well above the 10 degrees where Daimler shuts its emission treatment off. I wonder if the software is designed to shut down the emissions system under any other circumstances?

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/02/02/dieselgate-reaches-daimler-a-defeat-device-by-another-name/#b476c8d18913

Mr. Burns

Lol so at 10 degree C, there is no emissions control system on the MB diesel? What if you live in Canada or the midwest, where the temperature is in that range 6 months of the year?

What if you're driving home at night?

Granted it's not "fraud" like in VW's case, but it still underscores how oversold the benefits of diesels have been by the European car makers and the European auto media.

TangoRed

Exactly. Manufacturers know exactly what they were doing to past these [stupid] tests. I'm so glad the Euro emissions tests are coming under scrutiny so manufacturers actually comply with the intended purpose or drop their investments in diesels.

While VW is the only one who did something illegal, this is clearly not entirely forthcoming of what we expect when Daimler claims NOx figures.

Sulu

What if you live in Germany (home of Mercedes-Benz), where winters may not be that cold, but are still, on average, below 10degC (50deg Fahrenheit)?

jadu

iTrader: (42)

this is very interesting. imo, this shouldn't be dubbed a defeat device as Daimler states, but rather an engine "feature" to protect the engine or so they say. seems logical enough. although, features like this shouldn't be kept from the public nor come to light under investigation. It would need to be specified/documented in a manufacturers datasheet or manual of some sort. It is possible that this feature is written in internal Daimler documents not publicly available, but who knows.

spwolf

yep, under 10c, which is pretty much granted in Europe for most days in Winter, they spit out 40x more NOx than allowed... 40x is a lot, more than old Euro 3 laws of 15 years ago.

I dont think it is in USA though, it might be limited to Europe only.

spwolf

well obviously reason they hid this was that the car would never get approval for sales, in other words it would be banned. Just because emission testing in Europe is done at 22c, does not mean that car should disengage emission controls after 10c is reached... i would understand -30c... but 10c is normal temperature for most of Europe.

It certainly would not get sales approval in the USA.

Stormwind

I doubt the engine stays at 10 degrees for too long after it starts. There is no diesel gate for Mercedes.

ydooby

Pretty sure 10 degrees refers to the ambient temperature, not the engine temperature.

blacksun

I agree, IF they had previously disclosed this feature to the regulators and the regulators still gave them approval then there is no issue. However, the article seems to suggest that EU regulators had no prior knowledge the system functioned in this manner. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this goes down.

Hayek

One has to be stupid to think that only the Germans fraud these testes. Guess ****ing what? Everybody does, including self righteous Toyota. It's about passing the stupid test to get a good grade and therefore put the car on a lower and crucially CHEAPER emission rating tax bracket. It's simple as that. Even Toyota does the same and they cheat because governments use the environmental paranoia as an excuse to steal more money from us using emissions based taxation.

spwolf

do you really think that they disclosed that their emission control system only works at room temperatures? :-)

10c is 50F for people who did not look it up. So at 50F or below, their emission system does not work.


Also, I just read in Der Spiegel how tests were done at steady city speeds and showed up to 2000mg/km, which is crazy (80mg/km is limit). So this is not a high load test, just 20-35 mph steady speed test.

Some regulatory agencies are calling for ban of C class from driving and also from entering city centers when temp is 10c or under. Many european cities have smog check measuring stations that enact different rules when emissions go over some health limit.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

welcome and thanks for the awesome post. can do without the expletive next time though, even if masked.

chromedome

I guess the Benz emissions system works at 22C or above, the temperature for the Euro test, and stops working below that. If that's not a defeat device, I don't know what is. Pumping out huge amounts of NOx in winter could be even worse than in summer because it creates low level smog.

jadu

iTrader: (42)

Ya, I kind of gave them the benefit of the doubt. Regardless if this feature was hidden or not, I agree, 50F and lower is nothing and should NOT be disabled. I am curious of how this will play out and Daimlers argument though. Is it absolutely mandatory for it to be disabled at 50F to protect the engine? How is it detrimental to the engine?