TangoRed

You know, after driving both back to back, I'd say a Cadillac CTS is more athletic. GS is a better car overall though.

Trexus

The ES isn't going anywhere...it's true competitor is long gone...the Infiniti I35 which was discontinued in 2004. The ES is King of the hill. I truly look forward to the 7ES, 8ES, 9ES and so on...

Currently Lexus has a few variants around the world:

ES 200
ES 250
ES 300h
ES 350

spwolf

Of course it is not going anywhere, they just built new factory for it in the USA.

btw, GS has even more versions... GS200t, GS300h, GS350, GS350 AWD, GS450h, GS-F.

UDel

I agree, the CTS is the best driving car in its segment, same with the ATS now but their interiors and drivetrains are not up to par with the segment.

Trexus

There's also a GS 250 (4GR-FSE, V6) in Australia.

GS 200t
GS 250
GS 300h
GS 350
GS 450h
GS F

F Sport all variants.

Toys4RJill

Moving the ES to RWD is a bad idea. It would increase the cost, weight, reduce space, add more parts etc etc. The ES is fine for NA as it is. The majority of cars in NA are FWD and most people could care less anyway

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

if ES is here to stay, then Lexus should make an F-Sport version. CT has it, RX has it, no reason why ES should not have it.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Lol. The es buyer likely has no interest in either a 'mere' Toyota or a 'sports sedan' with polarizing styling. The es is 'safe' luxury at a good value.

Many factors but I would expect total es profit vastly exceeds gs profit and again they're not interchangeable so it's a false assertion to say they can be.

Mr. Burns

The GS became a "sport sedan" to differentiate itself from the ES.

In a world where there is no ES, the GS would be a proper midsize luxury sedan. This would force Lexus to improve the packaging.

Lexus is a luxury brand not a sport brand, it's in their name, and this recent change in direction towards "sport" is questionable.

The issue is FWD is better for volume because it has a wider appeal and superior packaging. RWD is better for image and prestige. The challenge is balancing the two in the lineup, so you could argue the ES/GS is where Lexus does that balance in the midsize segment.

Blaze876

iTrader: (1)

This is a big assumption. How are you so sure about it splitting like that? A person shopping for a large sedan in a certain price range such as the ES might find it hard to move up to the GS. Which leaves them with the option of going for an Avalon or looking elsewhere. The possibility of them looking elsewhere would be high to me imo.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

An entry level GS with 4 cylinder engine can be as cheap as the current ES.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

but you'd still have a hump in the rear seat area and i think many professionals who take people around (like realtors) buy the es because it can comfortably seat 4 or 5 people. they certainly don't care about sportiness, appreciating the quiet smooth drive around neighborhoods. think of it as a roomy luxury golf cart.

well 'sport' has been going on in lexus for a long time off and on - the sc400 was certainly considered pretty sporty when it came out and of course 'something wicked this way comes' gs400 was considered sporty back in the day ('98!). so lexus has been kinda in and out of it off and on, including prior lame (unmarketed) add-ons like "l-tuned", but obviously more recently it's been a more consistent and wider push with f-sport and f, so it's likely not going away, and i don't think it should, as they want to more closely compete with m-sport, amg, etc.

but i think your general point that lexus does luxury better than sport has been true, at least from a perception standpoint, but in reality that's changed - i mean the stock gs350 is generally considered to handle better than a stock 5 series these days. the 5 series got heavier and sloppier and less sporty... but maybe the 'conflicted' messages from lexus is exactly what they want - something for everyone, luxury or sport or both, whatever floats your boat.

i know we all want lexus to move faster but that's just not their way...

exactly right.

but it wouldn't be the same thing. lexus already has a gs200t of course.

Mr. Burns

MB doesn't seem to have a problem there with the E-class, heck it's used as a taxi.

LexBob2

It would be interesting to ask an exec from the Lexus Division if they've considered dropping the ES from the line. After a puzzled look, I have an idea what he/she would say.

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

For them, its like committing a suicide......