the new "Top Gear"
#152
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by litesoarer
Racist is such an overused term these days that it truly lacks meaning anymore. Many, myself included want nothing more than for those who continue to play victim and use this word to paint themselves into a corner over the proverbial crying of wolf. (and it will happen)
Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
Clarkson and friends will have greater freedom on Amazon instead of PC BBC
Originally Posted by litesoarer
Controversy is what makes TV fun. But of course the PC Pansies can't stomach that.
If free speech is such a coveted thing: use Clarkson's terms to refer to any of the people he's talked about "editorially" - on this forum directly and attribute it to yourself and see if you are breaking this forum's rules. Because if you can't then it means that not only is the BBC "PC", Club Lexus is the same by extension.
Last edited by MattyG; 06-28-16 at 07:33 PM.
#153
Lexus Champion
Chris Evans says the UK media piled on him and the show, but it sounds like he was the wrong host all along.
Now the question is, will Leblanc buy into a multi-year deal with the BBC? If it happens, would he leverage his Hollywood connections to bring some bling to compete against the Clarkson Amazon version?
I've read some UK columnists who were talking about the fact that they could have originally gone with an unknown.
The history of this show runs deep. Clarkson would not have had a platform if it wasn't for the fact that the BBC stuck with it for four decades. There have been multiple hosts. A private for-profit outfit may not have stuck with it the way the BBC did.
Clarkson's version caught on in 2002. Kudos to him for bringing excitement but also bringing lowest common denominator thinking to automotive opinionism.
Now the question is, will Leblanc buy into a multi-year deal with the BBC? If it happens, would he leverage his Hollywood connections to bring some bling to compete against the Clarkson Amazon version?
I've read some UK columnists who were talking about the fact that they could have originally gone with an unknown.
The history of this show runs deep. Clarkson would not have had a platform if it wasn't for the fact that the BBC stuck with it for four decades. There have been multiple hosts. A private for-profit outfit may not have stuck with it the way the BBC did.
Clarkson's version caught on in 2002. Kudos to him for bringing excitement but also bringing lowest common denominator thinking to automotive opinionism.
#154
Lexus Test Driver
Doesn't it depend on which majority or minority group is on the receiving end of Clarkson's poop?
If free speech is such a coveted thing: use Clarkson's terms to refer to any of the people he's talked about "editorially" - on this forum directly and attribute it to yourself and see if you are breaking this forum's rules. Because if you can't then it means that not only is the BBC "PC", Club Lexus is the same by extension.
If free speech is such a coveted thing: use Clarkson's terms to refer to any of the people he's talked about "editorially" - on this forum directly and attribute it to yourself and see if you are breaking this forum's rules. Because if you can't then it means that not only is the BBC "PC", Club Lexus is the same by extension.
It's just TV!
#155
Lexus Test Driver
Just TV that millions of people watch, that's all. Maybe they'll get the idea that using racist labels on TV is perfectly OK because a big BBC star did so and nothing happened to him.
Political correctness is easy to criticize when you're in a dominant position of power. Things are different if you're a woman from an ethnic minority background, an LGBTQ person struggling to make ends meet, or a refugee from a different religious background than the majority. We should be more inclusive in our speech and actions and not perpetuate unequal power relations.
Political correctness is easy to criticize when you're in a dominant position of power. Things are different if you're a woman from an ethnic minority background, an LGBTQ person struggling to make ends meet, or a refugee from a different religious background than the majority. We should be more inclusive in our speech and actions and not perpetuate unequal power relations.
#156
Just TV that millions of people watch, that's all. Maybe they'll get the idea that using racist labels on TV is perfectly OK because a big BBC star did so and nothing happened to him.
Political correctness is easy to criticize when you're in a dominant position of power. Things are different if you're a woman from an ethnic minority background, an LGBTQ person struggling to make ends meet, or a refugee from a different religious background than the majority. We should be more inclusive in our speech and actions and not perpetuate unequal power relations.
Political correctness is easy to criticize when you're in a dominant position of power. Things are different if you're a woman from an ethnic minority background, an LGBTQ person struggling to make ends meet, or a refugee from a different religious background than the majority. We should be more inclusive in our speech and actions and not perpetuate unequal power relations.
#157
Lexus Test Driver
If free speech is such a coveted thing: use Clarkson's terms to refer to any of the people he's talked about "editorially" - on this forum directly and attribute it to yourself and see if you are breaking this forum's rules. Because if you can't then it means that not only is the BBC "PC", Club Lexus is the same by extension.
That's why BBC's warnings to Clarkson and his eventual firing rankles so many people, Top Gear fans or otherwise. The BBC acts like it has some moral high ground to stand on, but they were all too happy to sit back and allow the controversy to manifest in the first place. No doubt, controversy makes for good TV ratings.
Also, to be clear - based on what I've seen that has aired on BBC, I would say that Club Lexus' forum rules are much stricter than any rules BBC places on its content - not because of "political correctness", but because our rules do not allow personal attacks.
#158
Lexus Test Driver
The thing about Clarkson, and why I like him, is that he is an equal opportunity hater. Granted he has said some "racist" stuff like that slope comment, but he constantly rails against British people, Americans, the French, Germans, Italians, and other "white" people. Personally I don't find him racist, maybe a bit of a nationalist with his British pride, but not a racist.
This sums it up perfectly.
#159
Lexus Champion
The thing about Clarkson, and why I like him, is that he is an equal opportunity hater. Granted he has said some "racist" stuff like that slope comment, but he constantly rails against British people, Americans, the French, Germans, Italians, and other "white" people. Personally I don't find him racist, maybe a bit of a nationalist with his British pride, but not a racist.
Specifically that somehow insulting other groups that happen to have a Judeo-Christian heritage means that a person can't possibly be a racist.
It says that he is free to insult other non-white groups because he also insults Europeans or Americans. IMO that sounds like moral equivalency, one thing justifies the other. It's sort of like saying a black man who uses the "n" word to insult other black men must be a racist so it's okay for a white man to also use that term.
Originally Posted by genger
But that's an oversimplification of the argument being presented. As has been pointed out by many others in this thread, the BBC often not only welcomed the controversy from Clarkson, but were all to happy to profit from it. For example, in the case of the Burma special incident, the BBC admitted to TV regulators that Clarkson's use of the term was scripted and that they knew what the term meant. They broadcasted it anyway. It's the same thing with the comments the Top Gear hosts made about Mexicans. The BBC could have easily chosen not to air or publish them. But they did.
That's why BBC's warnings to Clarkson and his eventual firing rankles so many people, Top Gear fans or otherwise. The BBC acts like it has some moral high ground to stand on, but they were all too happy to sit back and allow the controversy to manifest in the first place. No doubt, controversy makes for good TV ratings.
Also, to be clear - based on what I've seen that has aired on BBC, I would say that Club Lexus' forum rules are much stricter than any rules BBC places on its content - not because of "political correctness", but because our rules do not allow personal attacks.
Also, to be clear - based on what I've seen that has aired on BBC, I would say that Club Lexus' forum rules are much stricter than any rules BBC places on its content - not because of "political correctness", but because our rules do not allow personal attacks.
CL rules say "personal attacks" but do they say if you can use racist terms to refer to a group of people in general?
#160
Lexus Fanatic
I really just don't care about any of that LOL. I watch things that I find entertaining and amusing, and I found Top Gear extremely entertaining and amusing. Seeing that I found what they were doing entertaining and amusing I don't really care for the idea that they would be "stifled" or "censored" in what it is they were trying to do or say. I'm a grown person, and I can determine what entertainment I want to consume and what the tone of that entertainment is.
I'm not trying to change the world, just trying to be entertained for an hour here lol. There's no "vision to offend", I'm not looking for anybody to be offended, I just don't care if they are offended or not. If they're offended, they can not watch. There are things out there that I find offensive, not very many things but there are some things, and I don't watch or read those things. I don't go around yelling for those things to be removed from public consumption.
In any event, the sort of jokes you describe are a very, very small part of what went on at TopGear. Far, far, FAR worse exists on a simple Comedy Central special, let alone what you can find on premium cable.
All one has to do is look at what TopGear was in 2001, and what it became in 2002. All you have to do is look at the incredible appeal to see that they struck a chord with the audience and created something that was hugely popular. All one has to do is look at the result now that they're gone to see that THEY were what people found amusing, not the format, or the cinematography...because that remains...but the viewers are gone.
I think its a shame that this happened, but I'm excited for what we're going to get out of their Amazon show. They'll be free to do whatever they want, free from any type of censorship or tone management.
The big loser here is the BBC and the folks that work on Top Gear. Well, mainly the BBC because I'm sure the folks at Top Gear could be hired by Amazon for the Grand Tour. In a way, thats a fair outcome for them after they tried to have their cake and eat it too for so long.
I'm not trying to change the world, just trying to be entertained for an hour here lol. There's no "vision to offend", I'm not looking for anybody to be offended, I just don't care if they are offended or not. If they're offended, they can not watch. There are things out there that I find offensive, not very many things but there are some things, and I don't watch or read those things. I don't go around yelling for those things to be removed from public consumption.
In any event, the sort of jokes you describe are a very, very small part of what went on at TopGear. Far, far, FAR worse exists on a simple Comedy Central special, let alone what you can find on premium cable.
All one has to do is look at what TopGear was in 2001, and what it became in 2002. All you have to do is look at the incredible appeal to see that they struck a chord with the audience and created something that was hugely popular. All one has to do is look at the result now that they're gone to see that THEY were what people found amusing, not the format, or the cinematography...because that remains...but the viewers are gone.
I think its a shame that this happened, but I'm excited for what we're going to get out of their Amazon show. They'll be free to do whatever they want, free from any type of censorship or tone management.
The big loser here is the BBC and the folks that work on Top Gear. Well, mainly the BBC because I'm sure the folks at Top Gear could be hired by Amazon for the Grand Tour. In a way, thats a fair outcome for them after they tried to have their cake and eat it too for so long.
Last edited by SW17LS; 07-05-16 at 05:13 PM.
#161
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Prohibited and enforced
You agree, through the Terms of Service, that you will not use Club Lexus to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory of any kind, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, sexually oriented, racial, stereotypical, sexist remarks threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violation of any law.
#162
Lexus Champion
Thanks for the clarification DaveGS4.
Yes the terms and conditions are spelled out and I have certainly run to the edges of those boundaries in my debates or discussions here. CL is certainly not a "politically correct" forum for simply observing basic rules of human dignity is it?
It recently celebrated 275K members and those members are from all over the world. There are postings here I've read from people in the Middle East, Nordic countries and of course Canada, USA.
Yet Clarkson's fans offer you a very narrow de-contextualized view of the world of automotive enthusiasts. Yes, indeed if you don't like it then don't tune in. And that's the point if you don't like a CL opinion... don't tune in and react to it - it's called the ignore list
Yes the terms and conditions are spelled out and I have certainly run to the edges of those boundaries in my debates or discussions here. CL is certainly not a "politically correct" forum for simply observing basic rules of human dignity is it?
It recently celebrated 275K members and those members are from all over the world. There are postings here I've read from people in the Middle East, Nordic countries and of course Canada, USA.
Yet Clarkson's fans offer you a very narrow de-contextualized view of the world of automotive enthusiasts. Yes, indeed if you don't like it then don't tune in. And that's the point if you don't like a CL opinion... don't tune in and react to it - it's called the ignore list
#163
Lexus Test Driver
Last edited by litesoarer; 07-05-16 at 06:30 PM.
#164
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by MattyG
.
Yet Clarkson's fans offer you a very narrow de-contextualized view of the world of automotive enthusiasts. Yes, indeed if you don't like it then don't tune in. And that's the point if you don't like a CL opinion... don't tune in and react to it - it's called the ignore list
Yet Clarkson's fans offer you a very narrow de-contextualized view of the world of automotive enthusiasts. Yes, indeed if you don't like it then don't tune in. And that's the point if you don't like a CL opinion... don't tune in and react to it - it's called the ignore list
CL has the right to limit the content of what gets expressed on their forum. The BBC has the right to limit the content of what he's expressed on its airwaves. The point here is that for years they allowed this content to be expressed, then cried foul when it was brought to their attention by critics and blamed Clarkson, then continued to allow it to be scripted and expressed.
If the BBC had simply not allowed that content originally that would have been a different matter.
#165
Lexus Champion
Go after the opinion not the person voicing a position.