4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

Clarkson and friends will have greater freedom on Amazon instead of PC BBC

MattyG

So people who object to the use of the word "slope" to refer to Asians (from Clarkson's generation), or something young people would not even know anymore (catch a N***** by the...), or shooting darts at mentally or physically challenged persons, should not stand up and call him out. Sounds like dog whistle television.

Yes they will but not as much as you might think.

Doesn't it depend on which majority or minority group is on the receiving end of Clarkson's poop?

If free speech is such a coveted thing: use Clarkson's terms to refer to any of the people he's talked about "editorially" - on this forum directly and attribute it to yourself and see if you are breaking this forum's rules. Because if you can't then it means that not only is the BBC "PC", Club Lexus is the same by extension.

MattyG

Chris Evans says the UK media piled on him and the show, but it sounds like he was the wrong host all along.

Now the question is, will Leblanc buy into a multi-year deal with the BBC? If it happens, would he leverage his Hollywood connections to bring some bling to compete against the Clarkson Amazon version?

I've read some UK columnists who were talking about the fact that they could have originally gone with an unknown.

The history of this show runs deep. Clarkson would not have had a platform if it wasn't for the fact that the BBC stuck with it for four decades. There have been multiple hosts. A private for-profit outfit may not have stuck with it the way the BBC did.

Clarkson's version caught on in 2002. Kudos to him for bringing excitement but also bringing lowest common denominator thinking to automotive opinionism.

litesoarer

Who cares?!

It's just TV!

chromedome

Just TV that millions of people watch, that's all. Maybe they'll get the idea that using racist labels on TV is perfectly OK because a big BBC star did so and nothing happened to him.

Political correctness is easy to criticize when you're in a dominant position of power. Things are different if you're a woman from an ethnic minority background, an LGBTQ person struggling to make ends meet, or a refugee from a different religious background than the majority. We should be more inclusive in our speech and actions and not perpetuate unequal power relations.

Aron9000

The thing about Clarkson, and why I like him, is that he is an equal opportunity hater. Granted he has said some "racist" stuff like that slope comment, but he constantly rails against British people, Americans, the French, Germans, Italians, and other "white" people. Personally I don't find him racist, maybe a bit of a nationalist with his British pride, but not a racist.

gengar

But that's an oversimplification of the argument being presented. As has been pointed out by many others in this thread, the BBC often not only welcomed the controversy from Clarkson, but were all to happy to profit from it. For example, in the case of the Burma special incident, the BBC admitted to TV regulators that Clarkson's use of the term was scripted and that they knew what the term meant. They broadcasted it anyway. It's the same thing with the comments the Top Gear hosts made about Mexicans. The BBC could have easily chosen not to air or publish them. But they did.

That's why BBC's warnings to Clarkson and his eventual firing rankles so many people, Top Gear fans or otherwise. The BBC acts like it has some moral high ground to stand on, but they were all too happy to sit back and allow the controversy to manifest in the first place. No doubt, controversy makes for good TV ratings.

Also, to be clear - based on what I've seen that has aired on BBC, I would say that Club Lexus' forum rules are much stricter than any rules BBC places on its content - not because of "political correctness", but because our rules do not allow personal attacks.

litesoarer

Precisely.

This sums it up perfectly.

MattyG

Yes I agree with you that he's more of a British white nationalist more than he is anything else. I think that your point about him being an equal opportunity hater is possibly inspired from some of the talking points that conservatives use to justify their claims about the lack of "free speech" in our modern times. These are rhetorical devices that the free speechies have used for a long time.

Specifically that somehow insulting other groups that happen to have a Judeo-Christian heritage means that a person can't possibly be a racist.

It says that he is free to insult other non-white groups because he also insults Europeans or Americans. IMO that sounds like moral equivalency, one thing justifies the other. It's sort of like saying a black man who uses the "n" word to insult other black men must be a racist so it's okay for a white man to also use that term.

Yes the BBC screwed up but they may have also hoped Clarkson was somehow going to tone down the remarks and stick to cars and adventures. He didn't. They uncorked the genie and didn't know how to deal with him while they were hungrily looking at the ratings. That's on them but it's an interesting lesson about ratings vs ethics. They had to act when he committed a physical assault on one of their own. Up to then it didn't matter as much.

What rankles his fans is that their champion of their version of freedom to offend is no longer on a huge platform. Now they're hoping that Amazon will provide him with a similar or better platform.

CL rules say "personal attacks" but do they say if you can use racist terms to refer to a group of people in general?

SW17LS

I really just don't care about any of that LOL. I watch things that I find entertaining and amusing, and I found Top Gear extremely entertaining and amusing. Seeing that I found what they were doing entertaining and amusing I don't really care for the idea that they would be "stifled" or "censored" in what it is they were trying to do or say. I'm a grown person, and I can determine what entertainment I want to consume and what the tone of that entertainment is.

I'm not trying to change the world, just trying to be entertained for an hour here lol. There's no "vision to offend", I'm not looking for anybody to be offended, I just don't care if they are offended or not. If they're offended, they can not watch. There are things out there that I find offensive, not very many things but there are some things, and I don't watch or read those things. I don't go around yelling for those things to be removed from public consumption.

In any event, the sort of jokes you describe are a very, very small part of what went on at TopGear. Far, far, FAR worse exists on a simple Comedy Central special, let alone what you can find on premium cable.

All one has to do is look at what TopGear was in 2001, and what it became in 2002. All you have to do is look at the incredible appeal to see that they struck a chord with the audience and created something that was hugely popular. All one has to do is look at the result now that they're gone to see that THEY were what people found amusing, not the format, or the cinematography...because that remains...but the viewers are gone.

I think its a shame that this happened, but I'm excited for what we're going to get out of their Amazon show. They'll be free to do whatever they want, free from any type of censorship or tone management.

The big loser here is the BBC and the folks that work on Top Gear. Well, mainly the BBC because I'm sure the folks at Top Gear could be hired by Amazon for the Grand Tour. In a way, thats a fair outcome for them after they tried to have their cake and eat it too for so long.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Prohibited and enforced

MattyG

Thanks for the clarification DaveGS4.

Yes the terms and conditions are spelled out and I have certainly run to the edges of those boundaries in my debates or discussions here. CL is certainly not a "politically correct" forum for simply observing basic rules of human dignity is it?

It recently celebrated 275K members and those members are from all over the world. There are postings here I've read from people in the Middle East, Nordic countries and of course Canada, USA.

Yet Clarkson's fans offer you a very narrow de-contextualized view of the world of automotive enthusiasts. Yes, indeed if you don't like it then don't tune in. And that's the point if you don't like a CL opinion... don't tune in and react to it - it's called the ignore list

litesoarer

You should make use of it like you would the (ch) button on the remote.

SW17LS

I'm not sure I understand your point...I don't see the correlation between CL's posting guidelines and the comedy presented on a TV show.

CL has the right to limit the content of what gets expressed on their forum. The BBC has the right to limit the content of what he's expressed on its airwaves. The point here is that for years they allowed this content to be expressed, then cried foul when it was brought to their attention by critics and blamed Clarkson, then continued to allow it to be scripted and expressed.

If the BBC had simply not allowed that content originally that would have been a different matter.

MattyG

Thanks, I only use it to ignore the most offending members or personal attacks on me. Why would you like to give me advice on a remote? I certainly enjoy your hilarious opinions but I would never ignore your posts unless you were personally attacking me.

Go after the opinion not the person voicing a position.