RXSF

I didn't say they didn't have variety. Using the W202 as an example, I meant that the difference between a C280 and a C36 is relatively small compared to a current generation C300 and C63. You could barely tell the difference in the interior between the two W202s and all it really had was the more powerful motor. Same thing with Lexus now, where the F models aren't nearly as hardcore as they can be.

TF109B

The LC has a massaged chassis? Source?

jwong77

Because Lexus

situman

It's actually pretty advance with some clever tech. Besides, since it is being used as a base engine, its not a bad thing at all. 467hp on base trim, might be slightly detuned, but still well over 400hp. It will still provide very good performance plus the aural sound and smoothness of a naturally aspirated engine. Lots of complaints from the lack of torque is partially due to the weight of the RC and GS. If this thing comes in 300 to 400 pounds less, torque is a non issue.

TangoRed

The first sentence of the quote mentioned the GS F, so that's what I was responding to. Not the LC.

gengar

C36 > C43 (and the C32, C55, etc. after that) all filled the same slot as C-class AMG model. They were never offered at the same time - just a different engine in a car occupying the same purpose.

Also not sure the AMG Hammer and SL 73 are good examples of variety - the AMG Hammer was custom order only (some of the trackers on MB forums claim as low as 30 units) and the SL 73 was super limited production (estimated at 85 units).

At the same time, it's not like the excuse that Lexus is new to the performance car marque is a very good argument. They need to compete with other manufacturers in the here and now. Consumers won't care that Lexus might be better than MB was 20 years ago just because Lexus is new to the game.

spwolf

yeah, funniest thing ever - it is most advancded V8 on the market outside the supercars.

RXSF

I think what we all meant was it doesn't matter how advanced the thing is, or that its yamaha tuned, or it has titanium this and that, you can massage a V8 all you want and it still can't compete with the FI engines from other brands.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

In what regard? Paper stats? Out right acceleration? Sure, no argument there. But then this powertrain was developed for engagement and emotion.

In the most literal sense it can't compete with FI engines because its NA. Current F's have a different focus than M, AMG, V, RS, which I believe is what people struggle with the most because they want F to match spec for spec.

The 2008 IS F matched favorably with the RS4 and M3 and set a standard for F, thus when the RC F and consequently the GS F launched either the weight, power or both were criticized when comparing to the revamped competition in the lighter M4 and more powerful M5.

To me the GS F is really more of a spiritual successor to the IS F which is on hiatus. A model that straddles and supports both compact and midsize grand touring sport. The current GS line is among the shortest in class when compared to a 5-Series or E-Class.

In life, people love to classify and give value and meaning to everything. Why does F or rather Lexus have to do what the Joneses of the world do when they currently offer something unique coupled with styling that won't get lost in a parking lot.

---

Back to the LC. I'm very excited to see the interior materials. This is a pedigree of car that will elevate the brand

gengar

I'm not too optimistic on that. It's going to have to use so much CF to come anywhere close to 3400lbs. Remember (if news reports are to be believed), this is going to use the same (or at least very similar) chassis as the LS, which would be a modified and extended TNGA. I just don't see that being lighter than the RC/GS, much less 300-400 lbs lighter.

I'd expect something more like a bigger SC replacement.

situman

If the report that it will use aluminum for the front section combined with some carbon fiber, its certainly doable. Besides, if 0-60 is in the mid 4 second range, for a base model, really not much to complain about unless you go drag racing or go on a racetrack.

ISF001

The engine vaguely resembles what was in my 2012 IS F. The old engine was awesome; the new engine is a masterpiece of V8 technology and virtually brand new.

Special features of the RC F engine include titanium valves, forged connecting rods, an optimized exhaust layout to more effectively harness exhaust pulses and an air-cooled oil cooler for optimum durability.

New or redesigned parts include: •Cylinder heads and cam covers
•Crankshaft: crank pin diameter, connecting rod big-end bearing size and crank counter-weight size are all reduced, to reduce reciprocating weight
•Crank main bearings and caps
•High-strength forged connecting rods
•Pistons and piston rings
•Titanium inlet and exhaust valves
•Intake manifold and throttle body
•Redesigned Variable Valve Timing-intelligent Electric motor (VVT-iE)
•Revised Lexus D-4S dual injection system
•Four-into-one exhaust headers and heat insulators
•Oil pan and baffle plate
•Alternator clutch system
•Engine and transmission oil coolers
•Spark plugs

Digging Into the Metal •The new cylinder heads improve the 2UR-GSE engine’s breathing with improved porting and a high-flow/high tumble ratio. In addition, intake surge-tank capacity has been optimized, as have the intake manifold runner length and diameter.
•The new oil pan baffle shape reduces agitation and hence friction, while new air-to-oil coolers for the engine oil and transmission fluid increase track suitability.
•The Lexus D-4S dual-injection system has been redesigned, with higher injection pressure of 2,611 psi and improved fuel atomization.
•The throttle diameter was increased by 10 percent, from 3 to 3.3 inches (84 mm).
•A new intake camshaft profile increases valve lift and suits the Atkinson cycle, while improvements to the electronic VVT-iE system have expanded its range of operation for increased fuel economy and performance.
•New four-into-two exhaust headers help reduce interference and hence further improve engine breathing. The larger-diameter exhaust system is designed to reduce backpressure and sound amazing, especially under acceleration. At the same time, the main muffler keeps things from getting too rowdy at lower speeds.
•As a final touch, the new 2UR-GSE engine has a one-way clutch on the alternator pulley.

ISF001

Who cares about the weight? Let's stop with the exhausted weight discussion, especially if you are not a driver of the new RC F who has logged at least 1,000 miles to really experience the car. Folks go to dealerships, take it for a 10 minute spin, and emerge as RC F experts. Really?

The car accelerates like a bat out of hell--faster than my 2012 ISF did, and that car was quick. The new F is highly responsive, planted, holds the line at 9/10s with TVD, and is a precise instrument.

The new F is the perfect bend of performance and luxury, and those seeking this kind of balance are buying the new generation of F cars. Few of us are frequent track boys. The majority are using the car as a DD and it will never see the track. Those who are tracking the car are having a blast based on what I am reading and hearing.

Esquire Magazine's Car of the Year Competition named the RC F as the Biggest Thrill Car of the Year. This aptly sums up the RC F for the majority of the owners.

As for the future LC F, I am sure the 600+HP version will get out of its own way. I for one will be on the waiting list.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i personally consider the rcf v8 a big improvement of the original one in the isf. and i think it's reflected clearly in the engine code. it's the same code and there is no change, if it's different enough toyota / lexus wouldn't be dumb enough to stay with the same code -- they are smarter than most of us here on this. if anything, even between the isf and the ls600h engine, toyota has different engine code between the two. i am not saying there is no change, in fact i think it's quite a lot of changes. but trying to defend that rcf engine is a far departure frmo the isf engine is simply in denial. stop buying into the marketing paperwork, they can make any car fly.

the really cute part here is how weight suddenly shouldn't be a problem when it's a problem almost everyone talks about, including lexus themselves, and a topic that's haunting companies like bmw big time. so deal with it

my take -- should the lc be light? i doubt that given what i have seen so far especially it's going to be based on the s class. and given that it's going to be a luxury coupe, i am not sure if it's going to follow what the sc was about (1sc that is). it would be great if it's light but i am not holding my breath on that either

spwolf

yeah, it certainly wont be lighter than RC or GS, thats crazy. But, this is a base engine. This is not LS-F.