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I would understand your point if you were consistent with it. You criticize F cars for being underpowered compared to the competition. The LFA is a highly praised car by almost all of those with any say in this category/world yet it was underpowered. So its ok for the LFA to be underpowered with good driving experience but not ok for the other F cars to do the same?
People, raise your hand if you genuinely think the 'Lexus bean counters' are keeping F cars from being 33 hp more?
Is there really any doubt that Toyota/Lexus is capable of getting another reliable 33hp out of the RCF v8 if they wanted to?
Again I want to reiterate how close the RCF and the M4 really is in terms of overall performance.
Both the RC-F and M4 have their flaws and have received their scolding within the automotive community. The RC-F was compromised by the bean counters with its overweight frankenstein chassis and the M4 has poor throttle modulation with controlling the peak torque while exiting a corner (hence why the times are so close).
Lexus was very lucky that BMW had taken a step backwards with the M4's driving dynamics.
Given that the target market for the LC is BMW's 6 Series coupe and Mercedes SL, I took a look at what the local dealers stock in these cars. Most of the BMW's were 640's with prices between $85K and $96K. The 650's are around $110K and there are no M nor Alpina models in stock. The Mercedes are about half and half between the SL450 (turbo V-6) at around $110K and the SL55 at $125K+. It appears to me that the LC500 should do just fine in this arena at around $100K. Since BMW and Mercedes sell a significant portion of their cars with 6 cyl engines, the hybrid will make sense to a lot of buyers if the price is right. If Lexus decides to compete with the SL65 AMG, it will need a lot more horsepower, but the the AMG starting over $150K there is a lot of room for a much upgraded "F" at a competitive price.
Given that the target market for the LC is BMW's 6 Series coupe and Mercedes SL, I took a look at what the local dealers stock in these cars. Most of the BMW's were 640's with prices between $85K and $96K. The 650's are around $110K and there are no M nor Alpina models in stock. The Mercedes are about half and half between the SL450 (turbo V-6) at around $110K and the SL55 at $125K+. It appears to me that the LC500 should do just fine in this arena at around $100K. Since BMW and Mercedes sell a significant portion of their cars with 6 cyl engines, the hybrid will make sense to a lot of buyers if the price is right. If Lexus decides to compete with the SL65 AMG, it will need a lot more horsepower, but the the AMG starting over $150K there is a lot of room for a much upgraded "F" at a competitive price.
Steve
I don't agree and I am not convinced the Mercedes-Benz SL is a direct competitor to the upcoming LC. The SL is a 2 seeat roadster while the LC is nothing of the sort.
I don't agree and I am not convinced the Mercedes-Benz SL is a direct competitor to the upcoming LC. The SL is a 2 seeat roadster while the LC is nothing of the sort.
Just because the LC and SL aren't exactly the same type of vehicle doesn't mean they aren't competitors. The S Class coupe will be a potential competitor as well.
Given that the target market for the LC is BMW's 6 Series coupe and Mercedes SL, I took a look at what the local dealers stock in these cars. Most of the BMW's were 640's with prices between $85K and $96K. The 650's are around $110K and there are no M nor Alpina models in stock.
Is there any evidence that the new LC will start at $100K? I can see it starting closer to $65K and loaded it up I could see it get to $100K.
IMO, the LC is going to be somewhere between the Jaguar F-type starting price of $61K and the $77K starting price of the BMW 6 Series.
Is there any evidence that the new LC will start at $100K? I can see it starting closer to $65K and loaded it up I could see it get to $100K.
IMO, the LC is going to be somewhere between the Jaguar F-type starting price of $61K and the $77K starting price of the BMW 6 Series.
The same price as an RC F? If the LC had a forced induction six cylinder engine then yes it would compete against a 640i. LC won't start less than $90K with a higher quality interior than a RC F or GS F, more exotic materials, latest platform architecture, and latest powertrain technology (notably the 10-Speed Auto and Hybrid with Multi-Speed Tranny). The LC was benchmarked not only against the 6-Series, but the SL, the 911, and the Gran Turismo
The same price as an RC F? If the LC had a forced induction six cylinder engine then yes it would compete against a 640i. LC won't start less than $90K with a higher quality interior than a RC F or GS F, more exotic materials, latest platform architecture, and latest powertrain technology (notably the 10-Speed Auto and Hybrid with Multi-Speed Tranny). The LC was benchmarked not only against the 6-Series, but the SL, the 911, and the Gran Turismo
Do we absolutely know for sure that their is not V6 lower LC350 option? For all we know the LC500 which we have seen in pictures is the top end model with all the trimmings.
Do we absolutely know for sure that their is not V6 lower LC350 option? For all we know the LC500 which we have seen in pictures is the top end model with all the trimmings.
Down the road we'll likely see a V6 not paired to a hybrid system. Till then only LC 500 and LC 500h have been only trademarked.
Toyota does this all the time with their Lexus brand. Right now a fully loaded IS350awd cost the same as the starting price of a GS200t I can't see Lexus succeeding with a base price of $90K for the LC.
Is there any evidence that the new LC will start at $100K? I can see it starting closer to $65K and loaded it up I could see it get to $100K.
IMO, the LC is going to be somewhere between the Jaguar F-type starting price of $61K and the $77K starting price of the BMW 6 Series.
No way. Lexus considers this a halo car, its not going to be cheaper than the LS...or cheaper than the GS-F. This is going to be the most expensive car Lexus makes. MSRP starting above $90k for sure with few options.
No way. Lexus considers this a halo car, its not going to be cheaper than the LS...or cheaper than the GS-F. This is going to be the most expensive car Lexus makes. MSRP starting above $90k for sure with few options.
did you forget that lexus has the ls600hl that runs 120k?
and on the success of a car, how do we judge? performance on the track which a pretty small group of audience care (us)? or the sales figures (which sometimes isn't really about how good a car is)?
the debate will never end. lfa is one of the best cars in the eyes of a lot of true drivers / reviews / pros. but in terms of sales and market audience, i think it's safe to say it's not close to be one of the best sellers among exotics and supercars. the same go for ISF, it's a great car after 2010 but sales was nowhere close to m3.
i do have to agree, as much as i like lexus and have good faith about them (and yes, i love the lc500), i think they have been doing a lot of half a** job the past decade on the F (or sports in general). could have and should have done a lot more.
which does come around and make me like this lc500 a lot. i think it loses a lot of the sc430 and even the sc300/400 feel. it digs in a lot deeper into the sports aspect.
and btw, no, the mb cl is not a competitor. very different car and given the nature of lc500 i don't see how someone would cross shop. the cl is notches better (except driving). the sl has been in its own league. hardly anymore calls the 6 series a sl fighter, same applies here.
08-29-16, 06:04 AM
