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I really wish GM put the LT1 in the ATS-V instead of the 3.6 twin turbo. I would have already bought one if they did.
To some extent, though, we're all going to have to get used to seeing smaller engines in the future than we'd like.....many of them with turbos. The CAFE laws in the U.S. are simply going to force a lot of V8s, eve normally-aspirated ones, out of the market. Heck, there's talk that even the next Shelby Mustang might be a twin-turbo V6. Old Carroll would roll over in his grave...although he did allow his name to be used on some POS 107 HP Dodge Omni 024 compacts back in the early 1980s. LOL.
There's no doubt about it. 10-15 years from now can you imagine what will be available?
I've told people I work with if you ever wanted a V8, get it now.
You might (?) see some V8s left on some heavier-duty pickups and some low-volume high-performance cars, but they are probably going to be forced out of a number of vehicles that have them now....Lexus LS, Mercedes S-Class, Audi A8, BMW 7-series, Chrysler 300, etc.....
You might (?) see some V8s left on some heavier-duty pickups and some low-volume high-performance cars, but they are probably going to be forced out of a number of vehicles that have them now....Lexus LS, Mercedes S-Class, Audi A8, BMW 7-series, Chrysler 300, etc.....
I doubt they'll be forced out of the S-class, BMW 7 series, Audi A8, etc. Now you'll probably end up with most of them being turbocharged six cylinders(BMW already does this on the 7), but I think the V8 will continue to be an option, even if it is limited to the AMG, S and RS Audi's, M BMW's etc.
People who spend $100k plus on a car want power and exclusivity, the carmakers will find a way to make it work on the high end of the market. They'll either pay a more fuel efficient manufacturer like Honda for credits or just roll the cost of the EPA fines into the price of the car.
Now cheaper V8 cars like the Camaro, Mustang, Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, they'll all be gone within 5 years when the next redesign comes along. Having a new fast car will become something only the wealthy can afford, the plebeians will be stuck with what was made before 2020ish if they want speed.
I doubt they'll be forced out of the S-class, BMW 7 series, Audi A8, etc. Now you'll probably end up with most of them being turbocharged six cylinders(BMW already does this on the 7), but I think the V8 will continue to be an option, even if it is limited to the AMG, S and RS Audi's, M BMW's etc.
People who spend $100k plus on a car want power and exclusivity, the carmakers will find a way to make it work on the high end of the market. They'll either pay a more fuel efficient manufacturer like Honda for credits or just roll the cost of the EPA fines into the price of the car.
Now cheaper V8 cars like the Camaro, Mustang, Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, they'll all be gone within 5 years when the next redesign comes along. Having a new fast car will become something only the wealthy can afford, the plebeians will be stuck with what was made before 2020ish if they want speed.
This is a bit silly of a statement considering the Camry does 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. V8 =/= speed.
I doubt they'll be forced out of the S-class, BMW 7 series, Audi A8, etc. Now you'll probably end up with most of them being turbocharged six cylinders(BMW already does this on the 7), but I think the V8 will continue to be an option, even if it is limited to the AMG, S and RS Audi's, M BMW's etc.
Yes, that's the point I was making......they might stay in the dedicated, lower-volume high-performance models like the AMGs, but probably be forced out of the bread-and-butter versions.
People who spend $100k plus on a car want power and exclusivity, the carmakers will find a way to make it work on the high end of the market.
Unfortunately, Government regulators don't always go by what car enthusiasts (or even much of the general public) wants. They have their own political agenda.....but that is the topic for another thread and forum, not necessarily Car Chat.
Now cheaper V8 cars like the Camaro, Mustang, Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, they'll all be gone within 5 years when the next redesign comes along. Having a new fast car will become something only the wealthy can afford, the plebeians will be stuck with what was made before 2020ish if they want speed.
Well, to some extent, history repeats itself. We got through the 1970s, unpleasant experience as it was....and I guess we'll get through this one.
I simply do not agree that the C interior is "Toyota Camry quality". I haven't driven a C450, but I did drive a C300 after it came out and the interior is VERY nice, when you consider that its an entry level car comparing to the IS, ES, 3 Series, A4, etc etc. Its easily the best in class interior IMHO.
Issue is when you get to something optioned this highly...its still the same basic entry level interior so in the $60k class it falls down beside the GS, 5 Series, A6, etc. But, at that $60k point this car outperforms versions of those cars you can buy for $60k handily.
Come on lol
Yes the Camry. Let's not dazzle people with red seats or low resolution photos of the Camry. Same red stitching as the Merc. Same damn suede. All in all I think the Camry dash is better integrated rather than having an afterthought tablet on top.
In any case go sit in that 450amg. Don't be dazzled by the red seats or the badge. There's a LOT of plastic inside that car from the center console to the glove box and the relatively thin stitched dash that has little padding. There's a lot of flare but little substance in there.
In any case I'd take the Avalon interior & Camry over the 450AMG.
Merc back seats
Camry(Notice the back of the drivers seat is even covered)
I'm here to only address interior fit. The Avalon destroys the Mercedes. Let me aslo add I noticed that the lacquer on either Toyota or Lexus seems to be deeper than Mercedes. I could be mistaken for it being shinier. But given the two again I'd have to take Toyota wood grain.. I also think I prefer the smooth integrated look or form fit of Lexus & Toyota ovedr the tacked on look of Mercedes from the speaker grills, tablet to the seat adjustments.
^^ that wood in the MB is purposely left unpolished. It is open pore so you can see the grain and is the new thing in luxury cars. You can opt for lacquered wood, but it won't be black. As for the speaker grills, you have to get really up close to appreciate the complexity of the laser drilled holes, and the fact that it is made of metal. Not even the LS uses metal for its speaker grills.
This is absurd LOL. An Avalon full of plastic fake wood and terrible plastics destroys a Mercedes C450 AMG? Could not be further from the truth.
You're confusing your own opinion about styling with actual quality of materials and workmanship. Yes the C Class has plastic in the interior, like I said its an entry level car. The S550 has a nicer interior but it starts nearly $60,000 higher than a C Class.
Lets put it this way...there are enormous differences between a $200 suit from Jos A Bank or Men's Wearhouse and an $800 Hart Shaffner & Marx Gold Trumpeter suit. There are also differences between that suit and a $1,400 Hickey Freeman suit. There are differences between a pair of $100 Lockport oxford shoes and a $380 pair of Allen Edmonds. Plenty of people don't know or understand those differences but that doesn't mean they don't exist, and to people who understand them and appreciate them they are enormous.
Like I said, I sat in the cheaper C Class without any of the frills and it would never have occurred to me to even compare it to a Camry or Avalon, so I don't see how sitting in an even better equipped and optioned C450 would make me think otherwise.
Styling is a different thing, thats subjective, but quality of materials is not. For instance, I would never use the word "Classy" to describe the interior of the Avalon, I think its hideous. You can feel the interior of the C Class is dull, but if you're saying the quality of the materials and build of that C Class interior is no better than a Camry, you simply don't understand what about it is actually much better (i.e. open pore matte finish wood vs fake plastic wood).
If you can sit in a Camry and feel its well built then you should save money and buy a Camry. Unfortunately for me I'm so accustomed to high quality automobiles I could never buy a Camry. I could easily buy a C class though.
Sw
Aside from the stitched dash everything below that Mercedes entire dash is plastic. The back of the driver seat is plastic & not upholstered. The lower door panels are plastic there is a ton of it in there.
Your still stuck on the badge. I call it as I see.
^^ that wood in the MB is purposely left unpolished. It is open pore so you can see the grain and is the new thing in luxury cars. You can opt for lacquered wood, but it won't be black. As for the speaker grills, you have to get really up close to appreciate the complexity of the laser drilled holes, and the fact that it is made of metal. Not even the LS uses metal for its speaker grills.
Ahh, thank you for the clarification. Nice to know that one can have that ordered.
Now you bring up something interesting & perplexing. I'm not a "carpenter" so when you say those are laser drilled I wonder what would account for the extremely rough speakers grills that my wife & I felt in the cars of the Mercedes on the showroom floor? Obviously the finish was not done. But they were so rough my wife quipped you could file a finger nail on them. This in a $165k down to the $65k model they had.
Even the salesman was surprised. They slightly caught the skin on your fingers. Laser shouldn't do this or were they drilled?
But I agree they are beautiful speakers. I love the style.
Sw
Aside from the stitched dash everything below that Mercedes entire dash is plastic. The back of the driver seat is plastic & not upholstered. The lower door panels are plastic there is a ton of it in there.
Your still stuck on the badge. I call it as I see.
Yes, its plastic, but its higher quality soft touch plastic while the plastic on the Camry is hard touch lower end plastic. Plastic is not created equal.
For instance, all the areas you mention on my LS are also plastic (the dash on the LS is swapped, the upper part is soft touch plastic and the lower part is upholstered), but the quality of that plastic is much higher than what is in a Camry.
Your still stuck on the badge
Badge has absolutely nothing to do with it. I can name many non luxury branded cars with better interior materials than a Camry. My Kia Sedona is one, almost all Hyundai products. Many Ford Products. Toyota has a terrible low end plastic they use on the Camry and many other vehicles, really makes the interior feel cheap.
I call it as I see.
Some people know and understand quality, and some don't. If you don't see the difference in quality between a Camry and C Class interior, you don't understand or appreciate quality interior materials.
11-21-15, 04:23 PM
Let me aslo add I noticed that the lacquer on either Toyota or Lexus seems to be deeper than Mercedes. I could be mistaken for it being shinier. But given the two again I'd have to take Toyota wood grain.. I also think I prefer the smooth integrated look or form fit of Lexus & Toyota ovedr the tacked on look of Mercedes from the speaker grills, tablet to the seat adjustments. 
