mmarshall

I was thinking the same thing.

oldcajun

Somewhere in the Continental release PR was a statement that this was the "new face of Lincoln" so the similarity is not surprising.

I'm not sure why there is so much discussion in an MKZ thread about Lincoln needing a RWD car to compete at the top end. Remember, the MKZ is Lincoln's ES, not a LS or GS competitor. Just think about how much excitement would be generated on this board if Lexus had just announced a twin turbo 400hp AWD ES.
Steve

Toys4RJill

I completely agree, I have changed my stance on the idea that a luxury car manufacturer needs a RWD car.

Toys4RJill

Forget a 400 hp engine, I would be excited if Lexus simply upgraded the current ES offering in any way possible. The 3.5 engine that has been essentially unchanged forever...it debuted on the 05 Avalon.

mmarshall

The old saying goes. "If it ain't broke", don't fix it."

I don't see where that engine is broke. What's more, not only is it refined, but also extremely reliable, and will run for many years if properly cared for.

Now, for the interior and body...yes, Lexus could improve some of the cardboard-thin materials used...even more so with the Avalon.

mmarshall

Agreed that the MKX is Lincoln's ES (even more so, since the ES doesn't offer an AWD version like the MKZ). On the RWD issue, the main argument that some posters seem to be making (though I don't entirely agree with it) is that one cannot be a Tier 1 luxury manufacturer with only V6s and FWD/AWD.

SW17LS

The issue isn't so much the RWD as it is the longitudinal layout. Audi for instance has achieved tier 1 status without a RWD car, but all their Quattro cars are longitudinal engine layouts and rear biased AWD.

You can't be a legit luxury carmaker if you only sell transverse layout cars that are rebadged versions of downmarket cars. You need some bespoke platforms designed just for you, you need a properly proportioned RWD biased layout with a longitudinally mounted engines.

i.e. Lincoln and Acura, not legitimate luxury cars.

Toys4RJill

To me this is outdated thinking.

Toys4RJill

My opinion has to started to change on all this. The Tier 1 or Tier 2 thing is way outdated.

mmarshall

Torque steer, of course, is also a potential issue with FWD vehicles and large-displacement and/or high-powered engines, although modern suspension/steering/driveshaft technology has greatly lessened it as a problem. But, even with decades-old technology (and some torque steer), Cadllac did some quite impressive Seville SLS and STS sedans (and El Dorado coupes) in the 1990s using strictly FWD, transverse layouts, and the V8 Northstar power plant.

mmarshall

I partially agree with you on this, mainly due to the growing list of so-called "entry-level" vehicles with upmarket/luxury badges on them. A traditional Tier-1 vs. Tier 2 comparison would have been something along the lines of a Lexus LS460 vs. an Acura RL (now RLX), both considered flagship sedans of their respective companies. But, today, there are so many small, compact, or otherwise less-impressive vehicles, even within traditional Tier-1 brands, that it greatly complicates direct comparisons. Take Lexus, for instance. It would be quite difficult, at least IMO, to consider a CT or an IS to be a Tier 1 luxury vehicle. Or the Infiniti Q50, Q60, or QX50. Or the Cadillac ATS. Or the Acura ILX. Or the Audi A3. Or the BMW 1 or 2-series. Yet, these vehicles carry so-called "luxury"-grade nameplates....sometimes Tier-1 names. So, my point is that there is a LOT more difference between top and entry-level vehicles of the same brand than there is between top-level (or entry-level) vehicles between different upmarket-grade brands themselves.

SW17LS

Look at the result. What really legitimate luxury brand doesn't have a RWD or longitudinal setup or at least one bespoke platform?

An Acura or Lincoln will always be a nice premium car, but people will only pay so much to have a car thats a rebadged Ford or Honda. People will always graduate on to something more "legitimate" eventually.

My Dad had a 95 STS. It was a nice car, but he never considered it a real luxury car like a Lexus or Mercedes or BMW, it was what he drove because he couldn't buy or didn't want to pay for what he really wanted which was a Lexus LS. He replaced his Lincoln Continental with that STS.

Toys4RJill

Well, you can have your opinion, my used to line up with yours, but it is changing now.

SW17LS

Out of the two of us, I'm the luxury car consumer. My viewpoint on the matter as that consumer is a little more paramount here. At this stage of my life, I'm done buying transverse engined rebadged cars. Never again will I buy one...so when a consumer gets to my position, Lincoln and Acura have nothing to offer me...nor will they ever it seems...so they're not brands I would consider.

If that Lincoln continental were a bespoke platform with a longitudinal engine, I might. But, I don't want a rebadged Ford Taurus.

Someone isn't going to go from a Lexus LS to an MKZ. Someone may go from a Lexus LS to a BMW 7 to an MB S Class...or even a Hyundai Equus. People go from this segment to big luxury SUVs, but they don't go backwards to rebadged midsize FWD cars. Ergo, Lincoln and Acura are not on the same level because the consumer outgrows them.

mmarshall

The MKS was definitely too much of a rebadged Taurus, and rather disappointing (Consumer Reports was not a fan of it either). It did, though, offer one thing the Town Car didn't (besides better maneuverability)........AWD traction. I think, though, it's a little too early to claim that the new Continental, despite its basic layout, will be just another rebadged Taurus....we just don't know enough about its design yet. And, over at Cadillac, they took such a panning from the XTS that I tend to doubt that, with the CT6, they would do essentially another version of that car.