2017 Lincoln MKZ revealed - all-new 400hp/400tq V6 TT w/AWD
#61
Lexus Fanatic
#62
Somewhere in the Continental release PR was a statement that this was the "new face of Lincoln" so the similarity is not surprising.
I'm not sure why there is so much discussion in an MKZ thread about Lincoln needing a RWD car to compete at the top end. Remember, the MKZ is Lincoln's ES, not a LS or GS competitor. Just think about how much excitement would be generated on this board if Lexus had just announced a twin turbo 400hp AWD ES.
Steve
I'm not sure why there is so much discussion in an MKZ thread about Lincoln needing a RWD car to compete at the top end. Remember, the MKZ is Lincoln's ES, not a LS or GS competitor. Just think about how much excitement would be generated on this board if Lexus had just announced a twin turbo 400hp AWD ES.
Steve
#63
Lexus Fanatic
Somewhere in the Continental release PR was a statement that this was the "new face of Lincoln" so the similarity is not surprising.
I'm not sure why there is so much discussion in an MKZ thread about Lincoln needing a RWD car to compete at the top end. Remember, the MKZ is Lincoln's ES, not a LS or GS competitor. Just think about how much excitement would be generated on this board if Lexus had just announced a twin turbo 400hp AWD ES.
Steve
I'm not sure why there is so much discussion in an MKZ thread about Lincoln needing a RWD car to compete at the top end. Remember, the MKZ is Lincoln's ES, not a LS or GS competitor. Just think about how much excitement would be generated on this board if Lexus had just announced a twin turbo 400hp AWD ES.
Steve
#64
Lexus Fanatic
Forget a 400 hp engine, I would be excited if Lexus simply upgraded the current ES offering in any way possible. The 3.5 engine that has been essentially unchanged forever...it debuted on the 05 Avalon.
#65
Lexus Fanatic
I don't see where that engine is broke. What's more, not only is it refined, but also extremely reliable, and will run for many years if properly cared for.
Now, for the interior and body...yes, Lexus could improve some of the cardboard-thin materials used...even more so with the Avalon.
#66
Lexus Fanatic
Somewhere in the Continental release PR was a statement that this was the "new face of Lincoln" so the similarity is not surprising.
I'm not sure why there is so much discussion in an MKZ thread about Lincoln needing a RWD car to compete at the top end. Remember, the MKZ is Lincoln's ES, not a LS or GS competitor. Just think about how much excitement would be generated on this board if Lexus had just announced a twin turbo 400hp AWD ES.
Steve
I'm not sure why there is so much discussion in an MKZ thread about Lincoln needing a RWD car to compete at the top end. Remember, the MKZ is Lincoln's ES, not a LS or GS competitor. Just think about how much excitement would be generated on this board if Lexus had just announced a twin turbo 400hp AWD ES.
Steve
#67
Lexus Fanatic
The issue isn't so much the RWD as it is the longitudinal layout. Audi for instance has achieved tier 1 status without a RWD car, but all their Quattro cars are longitudinal engine layouts and rear biased AWD.
You can't be a legit luxury carmaker if you only sell transverse layout cars that are rebadged versions of downmarket cars. You need some bespoke platforms designed just for you, you need a properly proportioned RWD biased layout with a longitudinally mounted engines.
i.e. Lincoln and Acura, not legitimate luxury cars.
You can't be a legit luxury carmaker if you only sell transverse layout cars that are rebadged versions of downmarket cars. You need some bespoke platforms designed just for you, you need a properly proportioned RWD biased layout with a longitudinally mounted engines.
i.e. Lincoln and Acura, not legitimate luxury cars.
#68
Lexus Fanatic
The issue isn't so much the RWD as it is the longitudinal layout. Audi for instance has achieved tier 1 status without a RWD car, but all their Quattro cars are longitudinal engine layouts and rear biased AWD.
You can't be a legit luxury carmaker if you only sell transverse layout cars that are rebadged versions of downmarket cars. You need some bespoke platforms designed just for you, you need a properly proportioned RWD biased layout with a longitudinally mounted engines.
i.e. Lincoln and Acura, not legitimate luxury cars.
You can't be a legit luxury carmaker if you only sell transverse layout cars that are rebadged versions of downmarket cars. You need some bespoke platforms designed just for you, you need a properly proportioned RWD biased layout with a longitudinally mounted engines.
i.e. Lincoln and Acura, not legitimate luxury cars.
#69
Lexus Fanatic
My opinion has to started to change on all this. The Tier 1 or Tier 2 thing is way outdated.
#70
Lexus Fanatic
The issue isn't so much the RWD as it is the longitudinal layout. Audi for instance has achieved tier 1 status without a RWD car, but all their Quattro cars are longitudinal engine layouts and rear biased AWD.
You can't be a legit luxury carmaker if you only sell transverse layout cars that are rebadged versions of downmarket cars. You need some bespoke platforms designed just for you, you need a properly proportioned RWD biased layout with a longitudinally mounted engines.
You can't be a legit luxury carmaker if you only sell transverse layout cars that are rebadged versions of downmarket cars. You need some bespoke platforms designed just for you, you need a properly proportioned RWD biased layout with a longitudinally mounted engines.
#71
Lexus Fanatic
I partially agree with you on this, mainly due to the growing list of so-called "entry-level" vehicles with upmarket/luxury badges on them. A traditional Tier-1 vs. Tier 2 comparison would have been something along the lines of a Lexus LS460 vs. an Acura RL (now RLX), both considered flagship sedans of their respective companies. But, today, there are so many small, compact, or otherwise less-impressive vehicles, even within traditional Tier-1 brands, that it greatly complicates direct comparisons. Take Lexus, for instance. It would be quite difficult, at least IMO, to consider a CT or an IS to be a Tier 1 luxury vehicle. Or the Infiniti Q50, Q60, or QX50. Or the Cadillac ATS. Or the Acura ILX. Or the Audi A3. Or the BMW 1 or 2-series. Yet, these vehicles carry so-called "luxury"-grade nameplates....sometimes Tier-1 names. So, my point is that there is a LOT more difference between top and entry-level vehicles of the same brand than there is between top-level (or entry-level) vehicles between different upmarket-grade brands themselves.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-24-15 at 04:36 PM.
#72
Lexus Fanatic
Look at the result. What really legitimate luxury brand doesn't have a RWD or longitudinal setup or at least one bespoke platform?
An Acura or Lincoln will always be a nice premium car, but people will only pay so much to have a car thats a rebadged Ford or Honda. People will always graduate on to something more "legitimate" eventually.
My Dad had a 95 STS. It was a nice car, but he never considered it a real luxury car like a Lexus or Mercedes or BMW, it was what he drove because he couldn't buy or didn't want to pay for what he really wanted which was a Lexus LS. He replaced his Lincoln Continental with that STS.
An Acura or Lincoln will always be a nice premium car, but people will only pay so much to have a car thats a rebadged Ford or Honda. People will always graduate on to something more "legitimate" eventually.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Torque steer, of course, is also a potential issue with FWD vehicles and large-displacement and/or high-powered engines, although modern suspension/steering/driveshaft technology has greatly lessened it as a problem. But, even with decades-old technology (and some torque steer), Cadllac did some quite impressive Seville SLS and STS sedans (and El Dorado coupes) in the 1990s using strictly FWD, transverse layouts, and the V8 Northstar power plant.
#73
Lexus Fanatic
Look at the result. What really legitimate luxury brand doesn't have a RWD or longitudinal setup or at least one bespoke platform?
An Acura or Lincoln will always be a nice premium car, but people will only pay so much to have a car thats a rebadged Ford or Honda. People will always graduate on to something more "legitimate" eventually.
My Dad had a 95 STS. It was a nice car, but he never considered it a real luxury car like a Lexus or Mercedes or BMW, it was what he drove because he couldn't buy or didn't want to pay for what he really wanted which was a Lexus LS. He replaced his Lincoln Continental with that STS.
An Acura or Lincoln will always be a nice premium car, but people will only pay so much to have a car thats a rebadged Ford or Honda. People will always graduate on to something more "legitimate" eventually.
My Dad had a 95 STS. It was a nice car, but he never considered it a real luxury car like a Lexus or Mercedes or BMW, it was what he drove because he couldn't buy or didn't want to pay for what he really wanted which was a Lexus LS. He replaced his Lincoln Continental with that STS.
#74
Lexus Fanatic
If that Lincoln continental were a bespoke platform with a longitudinal engine, I might. But, I don't want a rebadged Ford Taurus.
Someone isn't going to go from a Lexus LS to an MKZ. Someone may go from a Lexus LS to a BMW 7 to an MB S Class...or even a Hyundai Equus. People go from this segment to big luxury SUVs, but they don't go backwards to rebadged midsize FWD cars. Ergo, Lincoln and Acura are not on the same level because the consumer outgrows them.
#75
Lexus Fanatic
The MKS was definitely too much of a rebadged Taurus, and rather disappointing (Consumer Reports was not a fan of it either). It did, though, offer one thing the Town Car didn't (besides better maneuverability)........AWD traction. I think, though, it's a little too early to claim that the new Continental, despite its basic layout, will be just another rebadged Taurus....we just don't know enough about its design yet. And, over at Cadillac, they took such a panning from the XTS that I tend to doubt that, with the CT6, they would do essentially another version of that car.