How Can Toyota Make Its Vehicles "Ever-Better"?
11-14-15, 11:53 PM
#16
Lead Lap
11-15-15, 09:35 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
I've said it before...there is not 1 Toyota product right now that I would buy. They've gotten a little better, but its still true. They don't make one product that I feel is the best overall product in its segment. In some segments IMHO their products are at the bottom of the list. I'm not talking about the Lexus line, but the Toyota line.
I think one thing they need to understand, is that "being a Toyota" and "being really reliable" is not enough anymore. They need to build cars that are in and of themselves appealing. Too much poor interior materials (for a time IMHO Toyota was making the crappiest interior in the business). Thats improved, but not by a tremendous amount. They need to put some effort into exterior and interior detailing. Compare my Kia Sedona to a Toyota Sienna, outside the Sedona has all gloss black trim around the mirrors and B/C pillars, bumpers, etc. Toyota has grainy black plastic. Paint quality is much better in the Sedona, on the Sienna (and other Toyotas) its thin and flat.
The Koreans, Americans and Germans are coming on strong in the "build a well built reliable machine" department, and they're doing it with some quality, attention to detail, and panache throughout their whole lineup. Even Honda, which already has the reputation Toyota has of supreme reliability is making cars that are more compelling. Toyota by comparison really looks like a company thats just churning out appliances. All you have to do is sit in an Accord, Sonata, Mazda 6, Altima, Maxima, etc and then sit in a Camry.
And...the answer to that is NOT weird, strange styling cues. Just build classy, sharp, well made and special feeling cars. Thats what we want.
I think one thing they need to understand, is that "being a Toyota" and "being really reliable" is not enough anymore. They need to build cars that are in and of themselves appealing. Too much poor interior materials (for a time IMHO Toyota was making the crappiest interior in the business). Thats improved, but not by a tremendous amount. They need to put some effort into exterior and interior detailing. Compare my Kia Sedona to a Toyota Sienna, outside the Sedona has all gloss black trim around the mirrors and B/C pillars, bumpers, etc. Toyota has grainy black plastic. Paint quality is much better in the Sedona, on the Sienna (and other Toyotas) its thin and flat.
The Koreans, Americans and Germans are coming on strong in the "build a well built reliable machine" department, and they're doing it with some quality, attention to detail, and panache throughout their whole lineup. Even Honda, which already has the reputation Toyota has of supreme reliability is making cars that are more compelling. Toyota by comparison really looks like a company thats just churning out appliances. All you have to do is sit in an Accord, Sonata, Mazda 6, Altima, Maxima, etc and then sit in a Camry.
And...the answer to that is NOT weird, strange styling cues. Just build classy, sharp, well made and special feeling cars. Thats what we want.
11-15-15, 10:18 AM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
I've said it before...there is not 1 Toyota product right now that I would buy. They've gotten a little better, but its still true. They don't make one product that I feel is the best overall product in its segment. In some segments IMHO their products are at the bottom of the list. I'm not talking about the Lexus line, but the Toyota line.
I think one thing they need to understand, is that "being a Toyota" and "being really reliable" is not enough anymore. They need to build cars that are in and of themselves appealing. Too much poor interior materials (for a time IMHO Toyota was making the crappiest interior in the business). Thats improved, but not by a tremendous amount. They need to put some effort into exterior and interior detailing. Compare my Kia Sedona to a Toyota Sienna, outside the Sedona has all gloss black trim around the mirrors and B/C pillars, bumpers, etc. Toyota has grainy black plastic. Paint quality is much better in the Sedona, on the Sienna (and other Toyotas) its thin and flat.
The Koreans, Americans and Germans are coming on strong in the "build a well built reliable machine" department, and they're doing it with some quality, attention to detail, and panache throughout their whole lineup. Even Honda, which already has the reputation Toyota has of supreme reliability is making cars that are more compelling. Toyota by comparison really looks like a company thats just churning out appliances. All you have to do is sit in an Accord, Sonata, Mazda 6, Altima, Maxima, etc and then sit in a Camry.
And...the answer to that is NOT weird, strange styling cues. Just build classy, sharp, well made and special feeling cars. Thats what we want.
I think one thing they need to understand, is that "being a Toyota" and "being really reliable" is not enough anymore. They need to build cars that are in and of themselves appealing. Too much poor interior materials (for a time IMHO Toyota was making the crappiest interior in the business). Thats improved, but not by a tremendous amount. They need to put some effort into exterior and interior detailing. Compare my Kia Sedona to a Toyota Sienna, outside the Sedona has all gloss black trim around the mirrors and B/C pillars, bumpers, etc. Toyota has grainy black plastic. Paint quality is much better in the Sedona, on the Sienna (and other Toyotas) its thin and flat.
The Koreans, Americans and Germans are coming on strong in the "build a well built reliable machine" department, and they're doing it with some quality, attention to detail, and panache throughout their whole lineup. Even Honda, which already has the reputation Toyota has of supreme reliability is making cars that are more compelling. Toyota by comparison really looks like a company thats just churning out appliances. All you have to do is sit in an Accord, Sonata, Mazda 6, Altima, Maxima, etc and then sit in a Camry.
And...the answer to that is NOT weird, strange styling cues. Just build classy, sharp, well made and special feeling cars. Thats what we want.
I would be more concerned about the Lexus before I worry about Toyota.
11-15-15, 10:23 AM
#19
Lexus Champion
The change I would like to see in both the Lexus and Toyota line is more a la carte options. Everything is packaged up and very limiting. As an engineer, I understand the reason Toyota does this, but as a consumer, it's frustrating.
11-15-15, 10:50 AM
#20
Lead Lap
all joking aside from jimbosr1's "bring back the supra" post, i genuinely believe that a high end, concentration of technology sports car would be great for the toyota image. that's what the LFA did, what the mkiv Supra did, it made people that otherwise might not have become curious with lexus. it also made people say that it was just an incredibly overpriced waste of money thats slower than a GTR, but the LFA sounds and revs the way it does so forget the GTR lol. when you see that a company can produce something like the LFA, it gives you a reassuring feeling (to me at least) that the company is capable of incredible creations when it genuinely makes an effort.
these cars also provide a glimpse of future technologies to be introduced further down the fiscal food chain in a short while. is anything happening with that FT-1 thing? because THAT would be a cool car to see at a toyota dealership, priced comparatively to a GTR with similar performance. right now i don't think there's any cool toyotas that are gonna make anybody go "damn that's a sick car that i really want." and the BRZ doesn't count although it is a very fun little 2 seater. the RC F is a good start but its not expensive enough to be considered a "serious" sports car, too ugly, and too focused on being luxurious
these cars also provide a glimpse of future technologies to be introduced further down the fiscal food chain in a short while. is anything happening with that FT-1 thing? because THAT would be a cool car to see at a toyota dealership, priced comparatively to a GTR with similar performance. right now i don't think there's any cool toyotas that are gonna make anybody go "damn that's a sick car that i really want." and the BRZ doesn't count although it is a very fun little 2 seater. the RC F is a good start but its not expensive enough to be considered a "serious" sports car, too ugly, and too focused on being luxurious
11-15-15, 10:54 AM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
How Can Toyota Make Its Vehicles "Ever-Better"?
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Like the outdated and obsolete LS460, LX470, GS350, IS350 are much better. These models date back to 06-08 and are still offered today. Toyota products aside from Tundra are pretty competitive.
I would be more concerned about the Lexus before I worry about Toyota.
I would be more concerned about the Lexus before I worry about Toyota.
The LS460 is long in the tooth yes, but still presents a strong value proposition in the segment, a car and an interior you've sung the praises of.
The IS and GS are on an all new platform that came out in 2012. Their power trains carry over for the most part, but the cars are all new and quite different from the IS and GS that Lexus out out in 06/07.
The LX470 hasn't been sold since 2007.
You know better than this.
As for Toyota products being pretty competitive, sorry I just don't agree. One vehicle I missed before when I posted was the Highlander. If I was looking for a mainstream 3 row crossover I might buy a Highlander, but I haven't driven the new Pilot yet.
11-15-15, 10:58 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
What are you talking about?
The LS460 is long in the tooth yes, but still presents a strong value proposition in the segment.
The IS and GS are on an all new platform that came out in 2012. Their power trains carry over for the most part, but the cars are all new and quite different from the IS and GS that Lexus out out in 06/07.
The LX470 hasn't been sold since 2007.
As for Toyota products being pretty competitive, sorry I just don't agree. One vehicle I missed before when I posted was the Highlander. If I was looking for a mainstream 3 row crossover I might buy a Highlander, but I haven't driven the new Pilot yet.
The LS460 is long in the tooth yes, but still presents a strong value proposition in the segment.
The IS and GS are on an all new platform that came out in 2012. Their power trains carry over for the most part, but the cars are all new and quite different from the IS and GS that Lexus out out in 06/07.
The LX470 hasn't been sold since 2007.
As for Toyota products being pretty competitive, sorry I just don't agree. One vehicle I missed before when I posted was the Highlander. If I was looking for a mainstream 3 row crossover I might buy a Highlander, but I haven't driven the new Pilot yet.
As for LS460, what a joke! 10 models years with the same engine, tranny, etc. Seriously, the LS is supposed to be a flagship. ES350 which my dad owns needs a new engine. Lumped together, Toyota and Lexus are about the same, most of the models engines date back to 05-06-08. But for the Lexus flagship to have the same dated engine from 06 or 07 is a disgrace
11-15-15, 11:00 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
How Can Toyota Make Its Vehicles "Ever-Better"?
LOL, do you want me to go back and find the posts where you've sung the praises of the LS460, even arguing it's pros with me? You're full of it.
Engines are a separate issue, and to most buyers the engine or how long it's been around isn't a primary issue. Toyotas just don't feel "special" in a time when other mainstream carmakers are really spice up their lines. Lexus has a similar issue with the ES and RX but that's largely been solved with the 4RX and the 2016 ES refresh.
Engines are a separate issue, and to most buyers the engine or how long it's been around isn't a primary issue. Toyotas just don't feel "special" in a time when other mainstream carmakers are really spice up their lines. Lexus has a similar issue with the ES and RX but that's largely been solved with the 4RX and the 2016 ES refresh.
11-15-15, 11:02 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
Go find them. I said I like them because I like the LS, the 13+ styling is what I praise as pre 13 looked like complete crap and the interiors of pre 13+ were not very good. But I also say it seriously needs upgrading.
11-15-15, 11:05 AM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
Can you give me an example of what you mean?
11-15-15, 11:07 AM
#26
Lexus Fanatic
Engines are a separate issue, and to most buyers the engine or how long it's been around isn't a primary issue. Toyotas just don't feel "special" in a time when other mainstream carmakers are really spice up their lines. Lexus has a similar issue with the ES and RX but that's largely been solved with the 4RX and the 2016 ES refresh.
11-15-15, 11:08 AM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
How Can Toyota Make Its Vehicles "Ever-Better"?
Not taking the troll bait, anyways that's not the topic of this thread, it's about Toyota not Lexus.
Like I said, I'd like to see something that speaks of a vehicle being an experience for the driver or buyer. You see that in everybody else's lines right now, but not Toyota.
Worst part is, Hyundai is even beating them at their own game a little right now. Used to be a Camry was a smooth great riding car, if a little plain. Now it's over the top looking, but underneath it's not especially refined at all...yet a Sonata is a great riding car and IMHO more premium looking and feeling.
Like I said, I'd like to see something that speaks of a vehicle being an experience for the driver or buyer. You see that in everybody else's lines right now, but not Toyota.
Worst part is, Hyundai is even beating them at their own game a little right now. Used to be a Camry was a smooth great riding car, if a little plain. Now it's over the top looking, but underneath it's not especially refined at all...yet a Sonata is a great riding car and IMHO more premium looking and feeling.
11-15-15, 11:59 AM
#28
Driver School Candidate
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Bring back TOYOTA DIESEL's
Toyota needs to bring back the diesel engines for their trucks and suvs. In Europe Toyota offers many diesel options but not for the North American market. The most popular japanese trucks in the 80's were diesel land cruisers and pickups. If Toyota brought back diesel trucks and some diesel cars I think it would definitely sell and appeal to gas saving North Americans.
11-15-15, 12:02 PM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
How Can Toyota Make Its Vehicles "Ever-Better"?
Diesels haven't shown that they have considerable desirability in the US. Europeans are much more fuel conscious than Americans, and there is still a stigma in the US about diesels.
11-15-15, 03:21 PM
#30
Lead Lap
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