Lexus Says No To Chinese Manufacturing On Quality Grounds
11-09-15, 10:45 AM
#46
Moderator: LFA, Clubhouse
More than a few and not just Japan either - when including suppliers for the iPhone 5 gen, more than 60% of total plants (both fab and assembly) are outside of China. So quite a majority of the plants are actually outside of China. Not even all the final assembly takes place in China.
11-09-15, 02:01 PM
#47
Moderator
Why aren't Chinese cars such as Chery, SAIC Motor, BYD, Geely, etc. sold in the United States/North America?
11-09-15, 02:08 PM
#48
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Because it's exceptionally difficult to enter the Auto industry in the US and be competitive. The current car companies in the US quite literally will not allow it. A good example is Korea with Hyundai and Kia. China definitely has the capability to build vehicles that can match the standard of quality in the United States, but they haven't done so because it just isn't a profitable venture for them for the time being.
I mean why bother? They're still a developing country with many many people who would like to have the convenience of owning a vehicle, but may not care as much for things such as the standard of safety, fuel economy, reliability and the long list of other things that our modern cars have and theirs do not. Cheap to manufacture and easy to sell.
Last edited by Prinny; 11-09-15 at 02:16 PM.
11-09-15, 02:32 PM
#49
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Made in China is not known for high quality. I personally avoid made in (communist) China products. I don't mind if it's made in Vietnam, Mexico, Canada or any country but China.
If Lexus were to be made in China I personally wouldn't purchase it however if Lexus were to build a plant in China I'm sure made in China Lexus vehicles would be sold in China and hopefully not exported to any other country.
If Lexus were to be made in China I personally wouldn't purchase it however if Lexus were to build a plant in China I'm sure made in China Lexus vehicles would be sold in China and hopefully not exported to any other country.
No, no, no, no, no.. please do at least a little research before making assumptions. China manufactures so many things that most people use and will come in contact with on a daily basis that it's honestly next to impossible to avoid. Unless you live off the grid and make everything yourself, but none of us here do that.. Assuming that China makes mostly poor quality products has long gone past.
Saying you don't mind products made in Vietnam and Mexico, but you mind if they're made in China makes no sense whatsoever.. Vietnam is still a third world country and economically China overwhelmingly shadows Mexico.
11-09-15, 11:50 PM
#50
Because it's exceptionally difficult to enter the Auto industry in the US and be competitive. The current car companies in the US quite literally will not allow it. A good example is Korea with Hyundai and Kia. China definitely has the capability to build vehicles that can match the standard of quality in the United States, but they haven't done so because it just isn't a profitable venture for them for the time being.
I mean why bother? They're still a developing country with many many people who would like to have the convenience of owning a vehicle, but may not care as much for things such as the standard of safety, fuel economy, reliability and the long list of other things that our modern cars have and theirs do not. Cheap to manufacture and easy to sell.
I mean why bother? They're still a developing country with many many people who would like to have the convenience of owning a vehicle, but may not care as much for things such as the standard of safety, fuel economy, reliability and the long list of other things that our modern cars have and theirs do not. Cheap to manufacture and easy to sell.
Chinese car manufacturers have to first conquer China. Chinese themselves do not trust Chinese auto brands, hence it is foreign companies that sell the most cars in China. Until last year, no Chinese car scored top scores in European crash tests, and that car was failure and brand pulled out of Europe this year.
In Europe, we have had Chinese brands come and go over last decades, and so far they all have been bottom of the barrel Chinese toy kind of vehicles. Last 2-3 years nicer cars start to appear in China and sell well for a year or so, and then they go down. They dont export these since they cost as much as European cars so there is no point.
As to Mexico, they have 50% bigger GDP per capita than China. And much longer history of producing vehicles. It is also very close to USA and major auto suppliers, plus you do not have to share secrets of technology with Chinese partners.
11-09-15, 11:52 PM
#51
11-10-15, 08:10 AM
#52
Lexus Champion
To make a blanket statement that the Chinese are not known to produce high-quality product is a overly broad generalization. It depends upon who is providing management and quality assurance oversight.
Just look at all the consumer products that we use everyday that is produced in China. Much has been said already about Apple smartphones but that could be extended to any brand-named smartphones. It is very likely that they are all assembled or at least contain electronic components sourced from a Chinese supplier. It is the same with our home entertainment systems (TVs, stereos). The luggage that we use when we go on vacation or travel on business -- perhaps to China -- was likely produced in China (or Vietnam, another Communist country).
We would not be able to purchase all of these consumer goods at the relatively low prices we want if they were not produced in a low-cost country like China. But why do we forget that these products we rely on were produced in China? Because they have been produced to a relatively -- acceptable -- level of quality, higher, in fact, than we have been led to believe the Chinese are capable of producing. The quality is high because those Chinese factories are overseen by organisations with names that we have come to trust, such as Apple, Samsonite, Sony, Toshiba, etc. We trust those brand names and so those organisations have their reputations on the line; they have bet their good names that they can source high-quality product from what has become known as a low-quality source of product.
While we have yet to see Chinese-produced cars here in Canada and the USA, we may very soon. Buick may soon be importing cars and crossovers made in China by the Chinese, specifically Shanghai Automotive (SAIC), with which GM has a long-time joint venture. But we may not realize that some of the cars we now drive here had engineering design done in China; these include the Buick LaCrosse and the Buick Verano, both popular models in China.
Volvo, now owned by the Chinese automaker Geely, may also start exporting cars assembled in China into North America. I have no doubt that the quality of those first Chinese Buicks and Chinese Volvos will be of high-quality, at levels that general consumers (but perhaps not yet enthusiasts) expect of these brand names.
What we do not realise is that the Chinese generally do not allow direct foreign investment; foreign companies wanting to do business in China form joint ventures with a Chinese company. In this way, the Chinese retain control and they also learn from the foreign companies via technology transfers. It will likely become the method for the Chinese to start to introduce Chinese-made high-tech products, such as automobiles, into the West, when, in the past, Chinese-branded product was not well-received (perhaps because of low quality).
Just look at all the consumer products that we use everyday that is produced in China. Much has been said already about Apple smartphones but that could be extended to any brand-named smartphones. It is very likely that they are all assembled or at least contain electronic components sourced from a Chinese supplier. It is the same with our home entertainment systems (TVs, stereos). The luggage that we use when we go on vacation or travel on business -- perhaps to China -- was likely produced in China (or Vietnam, another Communist country).
We would not be able to purchase all of these consumer goods at the relatively low prices we want if they were not produced in a low-cost country like China. But why do we forget that these products we rely on were produced in China? Because they have been produced to a relatively -- acceptable -- level of quality, higher, in fact, than we have been led to believe the Chinese are capable of producing. The quality is high because those Chinese factories are overseen by organisations with names that we have come to trust, such as Apple, Samsonite, Sony, Toshiba, etc. We trust those brand names and so those organisations have their reputations on the line; they have bet their good names that they can source high-quality product from what has become known as a low-quality source of product.
While we have yet to see Chinese-produced cars here in Canada and the USA, we may very soon. Buick may soon be importing cars and crossovers made in China by the Chinese, specifically Shanghai Automotive (SAIC), with which GM has a long-time joint venture. But we may not realize that some of the cars we now drive here had engineering design done in China; these include the Buick LaCrosse and the Buick Verano, both popular models in China.
Volvo, now owned by the Chinese automaker Geely, may also start exporting cars assembled in China into North America. I have no doubt that the quality of those first Chinese Buicks and Chinese Volvos will be of high-quality, at levels that general consumers (but perhaps not yet enthusiasts) expect of these brand names.
What we do not realise is that the Chinese generally do not allow direct foreign investment; foreign companies wanting to do business in China form joint ventures with a Chinese company. In this way, the Chinese retain control and they also learn from the foreign companies via technology transfers. It will likely become the method for the Chinese to start to introduce Chinese-made high-tech products, such as automobiles, into the West, when, in the past, Chinese-branded product was not well-received (perhaps because of low quality).
11-10-15, 12:46 PM
#53
Lexus Fanatic
The Chinese LaCrosse is substantially different from the American version, which shares its platform with the 2014+ Chevy Impala and Cadillac XTS. The Verano comes from the German-designed Opel Astra (in fact, it is mostly a rebadged Astra), with a GM Buick drivetrain and sound-insulation. The "Verano" which is sold in China is called the Excelle, which shares some features with the Verano/Astra, but differs in others.
11-11-15, 07:34 PM
#54
BTW you can march straight down to your Volvo dealer today and buy a brand new 2016 S60 Inscription that is made in China. They have to be making a killing as that is a $45,000 car.
11-12-15, 12:33 PM
#55
Lexus Champion
The Chinese LaCrosse is substantially different from the American version, which shares its platform with the 2014+ Chevy Impala and Cadillac XTS. The Verano comes from the German-designed Opel Astra (in fact, it is mostly a rebadged Astra), with a GM Buick drivetrain and sound-insulation. The "Verano" which is sold in China is called the Excelle, which shares some features with the Verano/Astra, but differs in others.
11-12-15, 01:45 PM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
11-12-15, 02:11 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
The first gen LaCrosse models in North America and China did differ but that changed with this second gen model. Opel developed the Epsilon II platform (shared with the Opel Insignia and Saab 9-5), the Americans engineered the body structure and the Chinese designed the interior and exterior looks. Considering that Buick lives on here in North America only because it is such a popular (and perceived as upscale) brand in China, it is appropriate that it was designed in China.
11-12-15, 02:16 PM
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Importing to the U.S. or Canada...or both? We know that an all-new Verano and the Cascada convertible are both coming next year....but I don't think Buick has announced where they will be built. The current Verano is built in Wixom, MI.
11-12-15, 02:57 PM
#59
Lexus Champion
General Motors has reportedly solidified a plan to import a Buick from China to the U.S.
The automaker will begin selling the Buick Envision — which is already assembled in China, Buick's most popular market — in the U.S. by early next year, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
The automaker will begin selling the Buick Envision — which is already assembled in China, Buick's most popular market — in the U.S. by early next year, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
11-12-15, 03:11 PM
#60
Lexus Fanatic
I had forgotten that Buick had plans to build the new Envision in China. Thanks for refreshing my memory. And, based on that, the Envision just went on my review list.......I'm anxious to see how well Chinese plants can assemble a modern vehicle.
Last edited by mmarshall; 11-12-15 at 03:15 PM.