When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I believe the article states that the F Sport buyers are on average 12 years younger which would indicate that style is driving the sales vs reliability. I know the older demo might not like the styling but I know a lot of new Lexus owners my age and they certainly never looked at Lexus before due to it being boring. Lexus is clearly trying to avoid what happened to Cadillac. I think it's working.
Yes, that's probably true for F-Sport buyers, but I was referring to Lexus products in general.
There isn't a valid argument that the S Class is not a superior car to the LS460. The LS is a lot cheaper.
but i think we can agree (i hope) that the LS 400 was better than the W140 and definitely the W220 in terms of refinement, performance, efficiency, comfort, quietness, and even standard equipment, despite always costing less.
and maybe i'm just influenced by this being my first car after it was passed down to me, but i prefer the 'reserved' styling of the older cars to some degree. these new ones just seem to have styling elements for the sake of styling elements, while its clear in the older cars that everything has a purpose and was designed that way for a reason.
i mean come on there's not much wrong with that... it's immediate successor on the other hand
The question is, though..........are today's buyers scooping up new Lexus products for their reliability or for the styling? Some people can tolerate awkward or controversial styling if a vehicle is reliable under the skin and doesn't send them constantly running to the repair or service shop.
Overall yes, Lexus is selling well with some models but not so well in others. But FUNCTIONALITY has to be there to.
Take the RCF. Went down to the local dealership and asked if we could do $63. He was positive with that. Seeingg he had at least 10+ left on the lot I decided to go sit in one to see for myself why they were moving so slow. Didn't have to wonder long once I sat in it. Man, those seats are tight. Very snug. They blew a ton of potential buyers out due to simple seat ergonomics. I'm not a "big" guy. But those side bolsters don't adjust for my lats one bit. My brother who is a weight lifter wouldn't stand a chance being in those seats. I wish I had a tape measure to see what the width is.
Look, if your going to make a "$80k" car give people a damn option to adjust the seating position accordingly with an 18 way adjustment. Spend a little money there. They made that car for small people. With the seat back there is no way for someone to even sit in the back seat either. Pretty useless. Lexus fell down on this car. It's a rocket for sure but they would have sold more is they allowed the seating for American size. Not peanuts.
Overall yes, Lexus is selling well with some models but not so well in others. But FUNCTIONALITY has to be there to.
Take the RCF. Went down to the local dealership and asked if we could do $63. He was positive with that. Seeingg he had at least 10+ left on the lot I decided to go sit in one to see for myself why they were moving so slow. Didn't have to wonder long once I sat in it. Man, those seats are tight. Very snug. They blew a ton of potential buyers out due to simple seat ergonomics. I'm not a "big" guy. But those side bolsters don't adjust for my lats one bit. My brother who is a weight lifter wouldn't stand a chance being in those seats. I wish I had a tape measure to see what the width is.
Look, if your going to make a "$80k" car give people a damn option to adjust the seating position accordingly with an 18 way adjustment. Spend a little money there. They made that car for small people. With the seat back there is no way for someone to even sit in the back seat either. Pretty useless. Lexus fell down on this car. It's a rocket for sure but they would have sold more is they allowed the seating for American size. Not peanuts.
Interesting point about the seats. Although you could say RC is just an IS line two door variant to justify the lack of the seat adjustment it kind of falls apart when you put $70K in equation. GS-F is even in worse position to make an argument. GS which comes with 16 seat adjustments in regular F-Sport package in pure F trim it gets only 10 adjustments just like RC. That is some serious WTF right there.
but i think we can agree (i hope) that the LS 400 was better than the W140 and definitely the W220 in terms of refinement, performance, efficiency, comfort, quietness, and even standard equipment, despite always costing less.
Eh, I don't know that I would cede on all those points. The W140 was a tank, and felt a lot heftier and more solid than the LS of its time, it was also a good deal larger. Very quiet and refined. The LS was as quiet and refined, but I wouldn't say it was MORE quiet and refined.
In those times the LS was not really a competitor for the S Class as much as it was a car that was sort of in between the E Class and the S Class in terms of pricing and cost. When we were shopping for the LS400 in 1998 we did not consider an S Class, the LS was chosen vs the E Class, Cadillac STS, 740i, etc.
The W220 was a beautiful car but turned out to be a reliability issue. We did shop the W220 S Class vs the LS430 in 2001 and again in 2003 and we would have chosen it when we got the LS430 in 2003 if it weren't for the cost difference.
and maybe i'm just influenced by this being my first car after it was passed down to me, but i prefer the 'reserved' styling of the older cars to some degree. these new ones just seem to have styling elements for the sake of styling elements, while its clear in the older cars that everything has a purpose and was designed that way for a reason.
...i mean come on there's not much wrong with that... it's immediate successor on the other hand
I had the identical car, except ours had a black interior. It was and is a beautiful car, very timeless design I agree. BUT, its not a car that stands out and grabs your attention in any way. Its anonymous, it doesn't leave an impression. Nobody bought an LS400 because they loved the styling.
Thats the point of what they're trying to do, they're trying to create cars that people react to on an emotional level, not just on a practical level. In order to make something people react to strongly positive, you run the risk of people reacting to it strongly negatively too.
History repeats itself, just like in the late 60's and 70's the box car returned. With some makes it never left. I wonder when that will come back? Some day lexus will have to make a change as this same old look they have now is getting old. Funny how car makers seem to attempt to create the goofiest head lights they possibly can.
Eh, I don't know that I would cede on all those points. The W140 was a tank, and felt a lot heftier and more solid than the LS of its time, it was also a good deal larger. Very quiet and refined. The LS was as quiet and refined, but I wouldn't say it was MORE quiet and refined.
In those times the LS was not really a competitor for the S Class as much as it was a car that was sort of in between the E Class and the S Class in terms of pricing and cost. When we were shopping for the LS400 in 1998 we did not consider an S Class, the LS was chosen vs the E Class, Cadillac STS, 740i, etc.
whether or not certain people acknowledge it as an s class competitor, it was certainly intended as being one. if you're saying the 7 series isn't meant to compete with the s class then i'd be a little unsure... whenever the LS was reviewed in a group it's always compared with the 7 series, s class, A8, jag XJ, etc... never an e class. if anything that's why the GS came out, to fill a more 'sporty sedan' role like the 540 or E430
yes the s class has more options than the LS but the celsior (despite being branded as a toyota lol) is more luxurious than the LS, typical japanese keeping the best stuff for themselves haha, just like the century with its V12... the celsior had (in addition to everything the LS had) radar cruise control (in 1997), electrically reclining and massaging rear seats, and even that air purifier so you could smoke your lucky strikes all day lol... hell even the passenger seat backrest has a pass through so the rear passenger can fully extend their legs and rest their feet on the seat cushion in front, now THAT'S luxury haha.
with regards to the W140, all i know is that the innovative original LS caused its final development to be rushed and delayed, which lead to the mercedes lead engineer losing his job. at least if the internet is to be believed he did.
I mean, I shopped for the car when it was new. You can compare it to an S Class, but the S Class was a lot bigger, a lot more expensive. Here's a comparison test from 1995 from Motor Tremd that compares the LS400, the E420 and the Cadillac SLS:
The LS400 was sort of an "in between" car. The 740i was a little more comparable. A 740 is almost exactly the same length as an LS400, the 740iL is actually shorter than a SWB S320, thus so is the LS400.
Once we were in the LS it was a gateway to the S Class, but even to this day I question how many people who truly would be S Class buyers actually look at the LS.
I've been around the LS since 1998. I've always felt that the S Class was a step above it. That hasn't changed.
I mean, I shopped for the car when it was new. You can compare it to an S Class, but the S Class was a lot bigger, a lot more expensive. Here's a comparison test from 1995 from Motor Tremd that compares the LS400, the E420 and the Cadillac SLS:
The LS400 was sort of an "in between" car. The 740i was a little more comparable. A 740 is almost exactly the same length as an LS400, the 740iL is actually shorter than a SWB S320, thus so is the LS400.
I've been around the LS since 1998. I've always felt that the S Class was a step above it. That hasn't changed.
damn, i'm annoyed you found that lol... well i've learned my lesson not to say "never" unless i've thoroughly done my research. this being my first and only car so far has undoubtedly given me a bias toward it and makes me want to defend its honor, but i must (and always have) admit that the LS was never quite as "cutting edge" as the s class, but the way i feel better about that is to say that its because toyota wanted to avoid over complexities. obviously this means better reliability and simplicity, instead of just putting everything they could put in it just because they could (the s class) and end up with something that starts to break not all that far down the road (the s class).
my dad's 2014 E63 that was bought new had already had more major problems in under 2 years than my LS has had the entire time my grandparents owned it (from new in 1999) and even including the time i've had the car over the past few years.
in terms of what is ABSOLUTELY the most luxurious and prestigious way to lumber one's executive tuchus down the road in total bliss, yes, i must concede that mercedes with the s class has been at the top of that game for decades, and will probably continue to be for awhile. although... i'm 5'10" i will say that i've sat in a new w222 s class and the dash was digging into my right knee ever so slightly. never even close to having that problem in the LS, which has an absolutely perfect seating position and button layout. ok spiel done. no matter what happens you still win because you have a brand new LS while im just sitting here jabbering about my 17 year old car whose original purchase had nothing to do with me whatsoever that i now just drive around and bug my friends and other people by going on about how good i think it is lol
Eh, I don't know that I would cede on all those points. The W140 was a tank, and felt a lot heftier and more solid than the LS of its time, it was also a good deal larger. Very quiet and refined. The LS was as quiet and refined, but I wouldn't say it was MORE quiet and refined.
I test drove both 2LS and W140 - no question the 2LS was far quieter, esp engine noise when cruising on the highway (which is to say almost none at all in the 2LS).
History repeats itself, just like in the late 60's and 70's the box car returned. With some makes it never left. I wonder when that will come back? Some day lexus will have to make a change as this same old look they have now is getting old. Funny how car makers seem to attempt to create the goofiest head lights they possibly can.
so what do we think everyone, will fins be making a comeback soon hahaha
it would be an ambitious and impressive move if someone could pull it off while looking modern
After what we've seen in the last 15 years or so (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Beetle, PT Cruiser, Chevy HHR, etc.....), it's hard to say never in the auto industry for retro designs. Fins could (?) indeed come back, but probably not like the 1950's, because the ones like that could (and did) injure or kill a lot of people. Unlike back then, today's cars have to meet strict safety requirements. As far as massive fins that could injure or impale someone go, although the '57-58 and '60-62 Cadillac fins are also garish, the all-time King had to be the 1959 Cadillac...nothing quite like it was ever done before, and nothing since.
but i think we can agree (i hope) that the LS 400 was better than the W140 and definitely the W220 in terms of refinement, performance, efficiency, comfort, quietness, and even standard equipment, despite always costing less.
and maybe i'm just influenced by this being my first car after it was passed down to me, but i prefer the 'reserved' styling of the older cars to some degree. these new ones just seem to have styling elements for the sake of styling elements, while its clear in the older cars that everything has a purpose and was designed that way for a reason.
i mean come on there's not much wrong with that... it's immediate successor on the other hand
Yes, it is still a beautiful car, and while it may not stand out these days with the "overdesigning" of many of the new models it still has presence. And it has aged well.
Some of the new models stand out for the wrong reasons. Even BMW is going more conservative with the new 7 Series. Granted, the "Bangle" era BMWs sold well, but they sure look dated today.
damn, i'm annoyed you found that lol... well i've learned my lesson not to say "never" unless i've thoroughly done my research. this being my first and only car so far has undoubtedly given me a bias toward it and makes me want to defend its honor, but i must (and always have) admit that the LS was never quite as "cutting edge" as the s class, but the way i feel better about that is to say that its because toyota wanted to avoid over complexities. obviously this means better reliability and simplicity, instead of just putting everything they could put in it just because they could (the s class) and end up with something that starts to break not all that far down the road (the s class).
Thats very true. I remember in 98 the first time the LS even came with a trip computer, it was always a car that didn't have a ton of technology in it, until the LS430 came out. Whats impressed me looking at the older UL LS430s with all the rear seat controls, swiveling AC etc and how they're all still working pretty well at this point.
I'll always have a soft spot for that gen LS myself too.
my dad's 2014 E63 that was bought new had already had more major problems in under 2 years than my LS has had the entire time my grandparents owned it (from new in 1999) and even including the time i've had the car over the past few years.
No surprise!
no matter what happens you still win because you have a brand new LS while im just sitting here jabbering about my 17 year old car whose original purchase had nothing to do with me whatsoever that i now just drive around and bug my friends and other people by going on about how good i think it is lol
LOL, not to worry you'll get there too. Keep that LS in good shape, its a great car.
11-01-15, 12:19 PM
