Toyota trucks to ISIS: America’s wrongest reporter strikes again. Cui bono?
10-10-15, 09:02 PM
#16
I don't think it's a question of which one of us is right or wrong....it's subjective. I just responded to your question of what I'd choose if I wanted an American-nameplate SUV for Middle-Eastern conditions. But I agree....it's hard to beat a Land Cruiser. The British Range-Rover has always been a good combination of off-road ability, plushness, comfort, and refinement......but has suffered in the reliability area. Plus, it would probably be hated by the same crowd that hates the U.S., simply because it is a British product....from our closet ally.
British Range River is long gone... It's owned by Indian Tata now, wake up
They lost all third world markets when they switched to unibody and began producing unreliable gizmos on wheels. it's an all-weather luxury vehicle only suitable for countries with developed infrastructure because a tow truck should be able to reach you a very nice vehicle otherwise just not something you want to find yourself in the middle of nowhere.
10-10-15, 09:41 PM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Or a Dodge Power Wagon diesel. Solid axle front, rear, lockers standard in front and rear. Can haul a lot too. Land Cruiser 70 has all the goods, but WAY too uncomfortable.
10-10-15, 09:48 PM
#18
Lexus Fanatic
I don't think it's a question of which one of us is right or wrong....it's subjective. I just responded to your question of what I'd choose if I wanted an American-nameplate SUV for Middle-Eastern conditions. But I agree....it's hard to beat a Land Cruiser. The British Range-Rover has always been a good combination of off-road ability, plushness, comfort, and refinement......but has suffered in the reliability area. Plus, it would probably be hated by the same crowd that hates the U.S., simply because it is a British product....from our closet ally.
10-11-15, 09:18 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
I would, too, for strict off-roading. The road network (and quality), however, is a lot better now in the Middle East than it used to be. A good chunk of that oil money over there went into infrastructure.
10-11-15, 09:32 AM
#20
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
mmarshall, I would take a G-Wagon from MB before I would take a Land Cruiser. Canadian Military fought terrorists using the G-wagon. Land Cruiser is good, but no solid front and no front/rear lockers = no go for me. Plus, LC is a little small to be honest but it does have decent cargo payload.
For every G-.wagon that Canadians fought with, there are probably 1000 Toyota trucks other militaries have fought with as well.
They dont really fight with LC's or G-wagons anyway.. they are modes of transport.
Now Hilux on the other hand, thats a weapon.
10-11-15, 12:47 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
For all around uses, the G-Wagon is near the top of my list. The size and space , solid axle, lockers, easy to fix in the field, I could go on.
Another vehicle is a Jeep G8 I think it is called, I believe it not sold in the United States, that would on the list as well.
70 series of course, but that has solid axles, lockers and a diesel. My only issue is that is does not have much comfort.
The Hilux is good, but IFS and its too small IMO.
Another vehicle is a Jeep G8 I think it is called, I believe it not sold in the United States, that would on the list as well.
70 series of course, but that has solid axles, lockers and a diesel. My only issue is that is does not have much comfort.
The Hilux is good, but IFS and its too small IMO.
10-11-15, 12:51 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
The Canadian Military used the G Wagon for fighting terrorism in the war on terror while in Afghanistan. It's probably the most capable of all the 4x4s. The big concern with the 200 series, no solid front option and no front locker. It's sad because the 100 series had an option for middle East that gave it the solid front it so rightly deserves.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-11-15 at 01:24 PM.
10-11-15, 02:25 PM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
The G-Wagon itself, though, was originally developed in the 1980s as a German/Austrian military vehicle, so, yes, I could see why the Canadians may have used some in Afghanistan.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-11-15 at 02:28 PM.
10-12-15, 11:04 AM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
In the Irag and Afghanistan war theaters, the military H1 Hummer was the vehicle of choice......particularly the armor-equipped versions, which lessened the effects of land-mines and IEDs. The U.S., of course, used many Hummers.....I'm not sure of the numbers the Canadians possessed.
The G-Wagon itself, though, was originally developed in the 1980s as a German/Austrian military vehicle, so, yes, I could see why the Canadians may have used some in Afghanistan.
The G-Wagon itself, though, was originally developed in the 1980s as a German/Austrian military vehicle, so, yes, I could see why the Canadians may have used some in Afghanistan.
10-12-15, 12:22 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
OK, you got me on that one, by a few years. 
Development started in the 70s, and the first civil version was offered in 1979. I had remembered it as a couple of years after that,
They are hard to get because a lot of people think that newer is always better, and are buying the GL-Class. So, dealerships aren't ordering many of them. I've never done a formal review of a G-Wagon, but I've seen and inspected enough of them to know that they are built like a tank, with excellent durable hardware on them. Shut the doors, and they slam-thunk like bank vaults...perhaps more so than any vehicle still in production. IMO, the G-Wagen is probably the sole remaining example of what many Mercedes-Benz products were built like decades ago....before upmarket Japanese competition forced them to cut costs and scale back on the materials they used.
BTW, speaking of reviews, I don't think you will be disappointed with my next one. Stay tuned....I'm going to get to it probably by the end of the week.
Development started in the 70s, and the first civil version was offered in 1979. I had remembered it as a couple of years after that,
you should do a review on one, that is IF you can get your hands on one of them. They are EXTREMELY hard to get
BTW, speaking of reviews, I don't think you will be disappointed with my next one. Stay tuned....I'm going to get to it probably by the end of the week.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-12-15 at 12:26 PM.
10-12-15, 08:28 PM
#26
I would probably go with a Ford F150 Raptor. It's pretty much unstoppable. Locking front, locking rear.
Or a Dodge Power Wagon diesel. Solid axle front, rear, lockers standard in front and rear. Can haul a lot too. Land Cruiser 70 has all the goods, but WAY too uncomfortable.
Or a Dodge Power Wagon diesel. Solid axle front, rear, lockers standard in front and rear. Can haul a lot too. Land Cruiser 70 has all the goods, but WAY too uncomfortable.
Reliability is a table stake and I think Toyota understands that very well. A broken down vehicle has its capability reduced right to zero.
10-12-15, 10:40 PM
#27
Lexus Fanatic
If I were crossing the Sahara or the anyhwere in the middle East, the Land Cruiser with its missing front/rear lockers are totally out of the question. The IFS of the Hilux or LC simply will not go as far as a Power Wagon or G-wagon with those solid axles and lockers. End of story! I do not care how reliable a Toyota is as you have to be mechanically inclined and you will be carrying spare parts if you were going on an expedition.
Another huge issue with the Land Cruiser and Hilux is the cost-cutting electronic 4WD switch, its simply inferior to a mechanic lever that comes with power Wagon as G wagon.
A 70 series is totally open to discussion, solid front/rear, lockers front/rear, mechanically lever, Toyota reliabilty etc etc.
A Power Wagon, G-class, 70 series all compare very well.
I would consider a 4Runner Trail Edition before I stepped into a 200 series of Hilux. The Trail at least has a rear locker as well as a lever 4WD shifter. The 4Runner does have a IFS which means I would have exclude it.
The 70 series LC is probably the vehicle that I would take. But I like the G-wagon better.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-12-15 at 10:46 PM.
10-13-15, 06:08 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
If I were crossing the Sahara or the anyhwere in the middle East, the Land Cruiser with its missing front/rear lockers are totally out of the question. The IFS of the Hilux or LC simply will not go as far as a Power Wagon or G-wagon with those solid axles and lockers. End of story!
10-13-15, 06:30 AM
#29
I'm not caught up in anything. Just look at 2015 JD Power reliability results. Pretty much all US auto makers have two stars in the power train reliability category while Toyota has four.
If there is anyone getting caught up in the marketing it's the US buyers driving unibody crossovers thinking they got a "best in class" SUVs.
I'm pretty sure people in the Middle East know what they are doing and understand 4x4 far better than Americans. All of them wrong and you alone right is just not a realistic outcome.
If there is anyone getting caught up in the marketing it's the US buyers driving unibody crossovers thinking they got a "best in class" SUVs.
I'm pretty sure people in the Middle East know what they are doing and understand 4x4 far better than Americans. All of them wrong and you alone right is just not a realistic outcome.
10-13-15, 06:45 AM
#30
One factor, though, is that the 21st century has also caught up with the Middle East. To get across the deserts, one does not necessarily have to have the equivalent of a motorized camel any more. Nor does one necessarily have to use his or vehicle to crawl through the sand dunes.....there is now a network of roads, usually paved.. That's been one of the advantages of having oil money, of course....funding for infrastructure.