Volkswagen diesel scandal
09-30-15, 05:07 AM
#230
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Yes, Bosch wrote that software but it was upon request from VW. The request could very well have been legitimate from Bosch's point-of-view: Develop software that uses the emission controls but also allows it to bypass the controls. That would allow VW to compare the difference in engine performance (power, fuel economy, actual emissions, etc.) when the controls were used and when they were not.
As a control systems engineer, that sounds like a very legitimate request to me.
As a control systems engineer, that sounds like a very legitimate request to me.
Hmm, kinda suspect of MB...
11,000 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Vans Recalled
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11,000 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Vans Recalled
...
the company sent an estimated 11,000 letters to customers who bought Sprinter models. The document mentioned that the “emissions-relevant control units” of the vans will be getting enhanced software. Further along the letter, it noted that it is “to avoid possible trouble with the authorities and test organizations.”
again i'm not saying what vw (and maybe mb) did was right, but i think the situation is being blown way out of proportion. radical environmentalists would like nothing more than to shut down all car companies entirely unless they're electric only, and have us all walk or take an electric bus somewhere. if you love cars you'd better root for vw's survival.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 09-30-15 at 05:10 AM.
09-30-15, 06:12 AM
#231
Pole Position
no, 'we' just knowingly consume truck loads of untested supplements, eat food with unpronounceable and unknowable ingredients and additives, hormones, etc. then of course the public consumes drugs, medical, legal recreational and illegal, and alcohol. we rub unknown potions on our skin to protect us from wrinkles or the sun yet there's little read studies showing these are cancer causing. and on and on...
09-30-15, 07:51 AM
#232
Lexus Test Driver
capitalism and competition should not be about spending billions to comply with arbitrary, inconsistent and conflicting global regulations.
no, 'we' just knowingly consume truck loads of untested supplements, eat food with unpronounceable and unknowable ingredients and additives, hormones, etc. then of course the public consumes drugs, medical, legal recreational and illegal, and alcohol. we rub unknown potions on our skin to protect us from wrinkles or the sun yet there's little read studies showing these are cancer causing. and on and on...
no, 'we' just knowingly consume truck loads of untested supplements, eat food with unpronounceable and unknowable ingredients and additives, hormones, etc. then of course the public consumes drugs, medical, legal recreational and illegal, and alcohol. we rub unknown potions on our skin to protect us from wrinkles or the sun yet there's little read studies showing these are cancer causing. and on and on...
Might as well put your lips up to the tail pipe with VW's hand behind your head.Actually that would be a cool bumper sticker on their diesel.
"Suck on this"...
09-30-15, 08:20 AM
#233
Lexus Champion
What in the world are you taking about this statement makes no sense. There is no conflict, make a safe and clean emissions vehicle and it will be allowed in every market on Earth.
09-30-15, 08:59 AM
#234
In the view of these evens, I've been reading up on how these EPA tests are being performed and it turns out that its a common practice to remove mirrors and door handles, tape over all body gaps, install underbody covers, over inflate tires and so on. So the ratings based on these tests are purely subjective. VW just took it to the next level.
If the governments agencies such as EPA are going to mandate certain compliances, they have to define testing standards a lot more clearly. When these standards are vaguely defined, it basically gives EPA racketeering powers. Theoretically EPA can decide to single out any other manufacturer, accuse them of cheating during testing and impose fines and all other sorts of punishment.
Now, to make things clear, I think what VW did was very wrong. But I also agree with Clarkson that VW should take a tough stance and tell the limp brained farts in the EPA to clearly define standards for test procedures, and also set realistic requirements for emissions and economy. When setting these standards, maybe EPA should also take advice from actual engineers instead of nasally pluck dressed global warming professors. Because if engineers have to design cars that actually keep up with the mandates that these imbeciles dream up during their eco-mental potato trips, these cars will soon end up costing as much as spaceships, and cost about as much to maintain.
While ganging up on VW, its good to keep in mind that some of their TDI models can be had for an amazingly low lease rate, with lower monthly payments than what most people spend on fancy coffee at Starbucks each month.
If the governments agencies such as EPA are going to mandate certain compliances, they have to define testing standards a lot more clearly. When these standards are vaguely defined, it basically gives EPA racketeering powers. Theoretically EPA can decide to single out any other manufacturer, accuse them of cheating during testing and impose fines and all other sorts of punishment.
Now, to make things clear, I think what VW did was very wrong. But I also agree with Clarkson that VW should take a tough stance and tell the limp brained farts in the EPA to clearly define standards for test procedures, and also set realistic requirements for emissions and economy. When setting these standards, maybe EPA should also take advice from actual engineers instead of nasally pluck dressed global warming professors. Because if engineers have to design cars that actually keep up with the mandates that these imbeciles dream up during their eco-mental potato trips, these cars will soon end up costing as much as spaceships, and cost about as much to maintain.
While ganging up on VW, its good to keep in mind that some of their TDI models can be had for an amazingly low lease rate, with lower monthly payments than what most people spend on fancy coffee at Starbucks each month.
09-30-15, 09:11 AM
#235
I know. hope they dodged a bullet.
I believe there is a conflict between the differing global regulations per diesels. VW sells globally and some countries are so strict, while others are non-existent. It comes down to a business decision really
I believe there is a conflict between the differing global regulations per diesels. VW sells globally and some countries are so strict, while others are non-existent. It comes down to a business decision really
Last edited by jadu; 09-30-15 at 09:18 AM.
09-30-15, 01:17 PM
#236
Lexus Champion
I don't see how differing emissions standards amounts to a conflict. It is simply a difference. VW sells gas powered cars in all the same markets they don't have any issues meeting regulations with those engines.
09-30-15, 02:55 PM
#237
In the view of these evens, I've been reading up on how these EPA tests are being performed and it turns out that its a common practice to remove mirrors and door handles, tape over all body gaps, install underbody covers, over inflate tires and so on. So the ratings based on these tests are purely subjective. VW just took it to the next level.
If the governments agencies such as EPA are going to mandate certain compliances, they have to define testing standards a lot more clearly. When these standards are vaguely defined, it basically gives EPA racketeering powers. Theoretically EPA can decide to single out any other manufacturer, accuse them of cheating during testing and impose fines and all other sorts of punishment.
Now, to make things clear, I think what VW did was very wrong. But I also agree with Clarkson that VW should take a tough stance and tell the limp brained farts in the EPA to clearly define standards for test procedures, and also set realistic requirements for emissions and economy. When setting these standards, maybe EPA should also take advice from actual engineers instead of nasally pluck dressed global warming professors. Because if engineers have to design cars that actually keep up with the mandates that these imbeciles dream up during their eco-mental potato trips, these cars will soon end up costing as much as spaceships, and cost about as much to maintain.
While ganging up on VW, its good to keep in mind that some of their TDI models can be had for an amazingly low lease rate, with lower monthly payments than what most people spend on fancy coffee at Starbucks each month.
If the governments agencies such as EPA are going to mandate certain compliances, they have to define testing standards a lot more clearly. When these standards are vaguely defined, it basically gives EPA racketeering powers. Theoretically EPA can decide to single out any other manufacturer, accuse them of cheating during testing and impose fines and all other sorts of punishment.
Now, to make things clear, I think what VW did was very wrong. But I also agree with Clarkson that VW should take a tough stance and tell the limp brained farts in the EPA to clearly define standards for test procedures, and also set realistic requirements for emissions and economy. When setting these standards, maybe EPA should also take advice from actual engineers instead of nasally pluck dressed global warming professors. Because if engineers have to design cars that actually keep up with the mandates that these imbeciles dream up during their eco-mental potato trips, these cars will soon end up costing as much as spaceships, and cost about as much to maintain.
While ganging up on VW, its good to keep in mind that some of their TDI models can be had for an amazingly low lease rate, with lower monthly payments than what most people spend on fancy coffee at Starbucks each month.
1. EPA has pretty tight standards, what you said about taping and taking off mirrors in European tests that are some 30% off EPA results for gas mileage.
2. Weak regulations have nothing to do with VW cheating on NOx test... it is actually strong positive regulation that made them fraud EPA by installing software device that modifies engine parameters during test so they output 40x less polutants than in real life.
EPA can not and will not single out any other manufacturer because so far other manufacturers did not fraud the EPA testing. Sole responsibility is on VW who decided to fraud EPA so they can sell vehicles that emit 40x more NOx in real life than in the lab.
What is sad is that you are reading some press that gets confused with CO2 emissions and NOx, as well as EPA testing vs European testing.
There is simply no confusion to what happened in the case of VW - even VW is not denying what they did at all, and their new CEO apologizes on their website for frauding the public.
40x worse NOx emissions is setting us back to 90's, pre Euro III regulations. BMW and MB vehicles tested by EPA did not emit more NOx in standardized testing while VW's emited 40x more.
09-30-15, 02:58 PM
#238
They all develop several different emission packages for worldwide use... for instance, new Toyota diesel 2.8l in Land Cruiser 150 has 3 different emission configurations worldwide - basic, with DPF, with DPF and SCR. Last one can pass Euro VI, middle one can do Euro V and basic one can do Euro IV emissions, depending on where it needs to sell.
09-30-15, 03:18 PM
#240