Volkswagen diesel scandal
#121
Actually VW's cheating software is more sophisticated than you think. It uses various sensors to activate its emission test mode only when the barometer indicates that the car is indoor, and when the engine is being revved but the four wheels aren't all spinning at the speeds they should be. In other words, one can't possibly trigger the emission test mode outside a lab.
#122
VW themselves have stated the scope to be 11 million cars globally, and most of them in jurisdictions with strict environmental controls. Yes, it is limited to cars without SCR, but still huge in scope. They set aside $7 billions, but given that EPA, CARB fines, along with US civil liability claims alone can eat that pie. What happens to claims from other Euro countries, GB, Canada and even China for that matter?
Anyway, Winkerton just resigned:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/bu...id=tw-bna&_r=0
Anyway, Winkerton just resigned:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/24/bu...id=tw-bna&_r=0
The members of the presidium have determined that Prof. Dr. Winterkorn had no knowledge of manipulation of emission values,” the group said.
That statement immediately raised the question of why Mr. Winterkorn needed to resign if he had not known about the manipulation. One answer might be that Volkswagen has long been known as a top-down organization, where even relatively minor decisions require approval from the high-rise executive office building, topped by a giant VW grill ornament, which looms over the company’s vast main factory in Wolfsburg, Germany.
Funny, how everything bad that is found big or small, the CEO will have no knowledge of it. But everything else is fine, the CEO's will claim. Something like when a staff brings up an illegal solution to a problem, "I didn't hear that". LOL
#123
Lexus Champion
The six most insane things Volkswagen's board just said about its CEO's resignation
Following Martin Winterkorn's resignation from the world's largest car company a few minutes ago, the company's Supervisory Board put out a numbered list of "conclusions" it has reached about the growing emissions scandal that threatens to bring the entire company down.
The verbiage is mostly what you'd expect from a handful of suits who are suddenly scrambling to prevent an enormous global institution from falling like a Jenga tower, but it still reads a little strangely.
Here are the weirdest bits.
1. "The Executive Committee notes that Professor Dr. Winterkorn had no knowledge of the manipulation of emissions data."
Is this to say that Winterkorn told the board he didn't know this systematic undermining of federal emissions regulations was going on for six years, and they wrote it down on a notepad?
Do they actually believe him?
2. "The Executive Committee thanks Dr. Winterkorn for towering contributions in the past decades and for his willingness to take responsibility in this criticall [sic] phase for the company. This attitude is illustrious."
"Illustrious" isn't the first word I would've chosen.
3. "All participants in these proceedings that has resulted in unmeasurable harm for Volkswagen, will be subject to the full consequences."
Full Consequences sounds like a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie. (Actually, it might be?) In reality, this seems to be a euphemism for termination of employment. Inasmuch that the world's justice departments are interested in prosecuting individual employees — which they may be — "full consequences" could also mean prison time.
4. "The Executive Committee have decided that the company will voluntarily submit a complaint to the State Prosecutors' office in Brunswick."
Prosecutors in Brunswick, Germany had already announced their intention to investigate Volkswagen employees over the scandal, but it seems like VW is being aggressively helpful here by ... filing a complaint against its own staff?
5. "The Executive Committee proposes that the Supervisory Board of Volkswagen AG create a special committee, under whose leadership further clarifying steps will follow, including the preparation of the necessary consequences."
Preparation of the Necessary Consequences is the action-packed prequel to Full Consequences.
6. "Volkswagen is a magnificent company that depends on the efforts of hundreds of thousands of people."
Depends on the efforts of hundreds of thousands of people? Yes — and the overwhelming majority of those are not complicit in the disgusting deception that Volkswagen underwrote over the last decade. "Magnificent company," though? At the moment, I'd take issue with that.
Maybe putting the Mission E into production would help.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/23/93...diesel-scandal
The verbiage is mostly what you'd expect from a handful of suits who are suddenly scrambling to prevent an enormous global institution from falling like a Jenga tower, but it still reads a little strangely.
Here are the weirdest bits.
1. "The Executive Committee notes that Professor Dr. Winterkorn had no knowledge of the manipulation of emissions data."
Is this to say that Winterkorn told the board he didn't know this systematic undermining of federal emissions regulations was going on for six years, and they wrote it down on a notepad?
Do they actually believe him?
2. "The Executive Committee thanks Dr. Winterkorn for towering contributions in the past decades and for his willingness to take responsibility in this criticall [sic] phase for the company. This attitude is illustrious."
"Illustrious" isn't the first word I would've chosen.
3. "All participants in these proceedings that has resulted in unmeasurable harm for Volkswagen, will be subject to the full consequences."
Full Consequences sounds like a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie. (Actually, it might be?) In reality, this seems to be a euphemism for termination of employment. Inasmuch that the world's justice departments are interested in prosecuting individual employees — which they may be — "full consequences" could also mean prison time.
4. "The Executive Committee have decided that the company will voluntarily submit a complaint to the State Prosecutors' office in Brunswick."
Prosecutors in Brunswick, Germany had already announced their intention to investigate Volkswagen employees over the scandal, but it seems like VW is being aggressively helpful here by ... filing a complaint against its own staff?
5. "The Executive Committee proposes that the Supervisory Board of Volkswagen AG create a special committee, under whose leadership further clarifying steps will follow, including the preparation of the necessary consequences."
Preparation of the Necessary Consequences is the action-packed prequel to Full Consequences.
6. "Volkswagen is a magnificent company that depends on the efforts of hundreds of thousands of people."
Depends on the efforts of hundreds of thousands of people? Yes — and the overwhelming majority of those are not complicit in the disgusting deception that Volkswagen underwrote over the last decade. "Magnificent company," though? At the moment, I'd take issue with that.
Maybe putting the Mission E into production would help.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/23/93...diesel-scandal
#124
Lost in most of the conversation is, the EPA contacted VW on this issue several times. Instead of fessing up, VW tried deception. In the US, that's serious, someone from VW USA could be in for some serious consequences if they lied to a US Federal investigator.
I'm a consultant to big Pharma/Biotec firms that get into trouble with the government. I don't work in the automotive industry, but based on how big companies work, I doubt that one department at VW decided to go rogue and violate EPA standards on one engine. I don't think all the wrongdoing has been uncovered and I would not be at all surprised to find other VW/Audi products are falsifying test results or using computers to get around a requirement. After all, this isn't the first time VW violated EPA standards. They were fined in the 70s for violations. We'll see how deep the US and EU want to push this but I'm certain that right now, plans are being made to test other VW/Audi products and not just for emissions.
I'm a consultant to big Pharma/Biotec firms that get into trouble with the government. I don't work in the automotive industry, but based on how big companies work, I doubt that one department at VW decided to go rogue and violate EPA standards on one engine. I don't think all the wrongdoing has been uncovered and I would not be at all surprised to find other VW/Audi products are falsifying test results or using computers to get around a requirement. After all, this isn't the first time VW violated EPA standards. They were fined in the 70s for violations. We'll see how deep the US and EU want to push this but I'm certain that right now, plans are being made to test other VW/Audi products and not just for emissions.
#125
Actually VW's cheating software is more sophisticated than you think. It uses various sensors to activate its emission test mode only when the barometer indicates that the car is indoor, and when the engine is being revved but the four wheels aren't all spinning at the speeds they should be. In other words, one can't possibly trigger the emission test mode outside a lab.
indeed... it uses many paramters to ensure that it is only activated in lab during EPA testing. This is what makes it sophisticated deception.
#126
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by Motor Trend
The company has issued a stop-sale on 2.0-liter diesel cars sold in the U.S. Now, the EPA says it is expanding its investigation to Volkswagen Group cars with 3.0-liter V-6 diesel engines including the Porsche Cayenne, reports The Detroit News.
#127
Lexus Champion
I didn't realize there were tax credits on these engines in the past.
http://wot.motortrend.com/taxpayers_...w_diesels.html
Originally Posted by Motor Trend
If you think the Volkswagen diesel emissions scandal only affects owners of those vehicles, think again. A report by The Los Angeles Times claims U.S. taxpayers shelled out $51 million in green car subsidies directed at Volkswagen diesel vehicles.
According to The Times, model year 2009 Volkswagen Jetta and Jetta SportWagen TDI diesel vehicles qualified for a $1,300 tax credit. An estimated 39,500 buyers took advantage of the credit, which means taxpayers spent around $51 million on green car subsidies for vehicles that were far from green.
According to The Times, model year 2009 Volkswagen Jetta and Jetta SportWagen TDI diesel vehicles qualified for a $1,300 tax credit. An estimated 39,500 buyers took advantage of the credit, which means taxpayers spent around $51 million on green car subsidies for vehicles that were far from green.
#128
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (3)
No, I don't think that's how the software works at all. From what I understand the software detects when emissions inspection takes place, and alters the way the engine operates to the point where it actually produces very low emissions. That might include reducing fuel delivery (FYI, diesels don't care about air to fuel ratio, so you can run a diesel very "lean"), substantially raising engine and catalyst operating temperatures, enabling EGR even at full throttle, changing turbo pressure, and/or whatever else VW's engineers could come up with. All of these would reduce engine power output by a huge margin, alter driveability, reduce efficiency but pass inspection. Also, the engine probably can't operate in this mode during long term, its likely only suitable for a short emissions test. When I took my diesel for emissions test, they only run the engine for maybe 10-15 minutes with a sniffer installed into tail pipe. With petrol engines they don't even do the sniffer test, just read the data from the ECU.
#129
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
From NY Times,
The members of the presidium have determined that Prof. Dr. Winterkorn had no knowledge of manipulation of emission values,” the group said.
That statement immediately raised the question of why Mr. Winterkorn needed to resign if he had not known about the manipulation. One answer might be that Volkswagen has long been known as a top-down organization, where even relatively minor decisions require approval from the high-rise executive office building, topped by a giant VW grill ornament, which looms over the company’s vast main factory in Wolfsburg, Germany.
The members of the presidium have determined that Prof. Dr. Winterkorn had no knowledge of manipulation of emission values,” the group said.
That statement immediately raised the question of why Mr. Winterkorn needed to resign if he had not known about the manipulation. One answer might be that Volkswagen has long been known as a top-down organization, where even relatively minor decisions require approval from the high-rise executive office building, topped by a giant VW grill ornament, which looms over the company’s vast main factory in Wolfsburg, Germany.
For the CEO to fall on his own sword (and take responsibility for the bad actions of his company and its employees) was always the honourable thing to do. You can still expect this to be done in cultures where personal honour is still highly regarded, including Japan and Korea; it seems to have fallen out of favour in North America, however.
Remember that the last CEO of GM (before Mary Barra), Dan Akerson, resigned just before the faulty ignition switch scandal broke? He did not fall on his sword. Mary Barra was lucky enough (and smart enough, no doubt), not to be pushed onto an unsheathed sword.
#130
Lexus Fanatic
i don't believe it's artificially lowering a regulated output. the software 'says' - if you drive like the stupid epa testers you'll get lower emissions. if not, screw the atmosphere.
that's not cheating, that's playing the hand you're dealt.
i believe they will fight it and win or get a modest settlement as no one was harmed except i heard some tree huggers cried.
that's not cheating, that's playing the hand you're dealt.
i believe they will fight it and win or get a modest settlement as no one was harmed except i heard some tree huggers cried.
#131
Lexus Fanatic
For the CEO to fall on his own sword (and take responsibility for the bad actions of his company and its employees) was always the honourable thing to do. You can still expect this to be done in cultures where personal honour is still highly regarded, including Japan and Korea; it seems to have fallen out of favour in North America, however.
Remember that the last CEO of GM (before Mary Barra), Dan Akerson, resigned just before the faulty ignition switch scandal broke? He did not fall on his sword. Mary Barra was lucky enough (and smart enough, no doubt), not to be pushed onto an unsheathed sword.
#132
Lexus Test Driver
For the CEO to fall on his own sword (and take responsibility for the bad actions of his company and its employees) was always the honourable thing to do. You can still expect this to be done in cultures where personal honour is still highly regarded, including Japan and Korea; it seems to have fallen out of favour in North America, however.
Remember that the last CEO of GM (before Mary Barra), Dan Akerson, resigned just before the faulty ignition switch scandal broke? He did not fall on his sword. Mary Barra was lucky enough (and smart enough, no doubt), not to be pushed onto an unsheathed sword.
Remember that the last CEO of GM (before Mary Barra), Dan Akerson, resigned just before the faulty ignition switch scandal broke? He did not fall on his sword. Mary Barra was lucky enough (and smart enough, no doubt), not to be pushed onto an unsheathed sword.
#133
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
ok folks, i've removed the posts about hitler and slaves... way too far off topic. thank you.
#134
Pole Position
In order to clean their name I expect VW Group to blast into PHEV and EV market very aggressively while Toyota claims how battery technology is not good enough for RX PHEV or some rubbish to that extent.
#135
The German government announced that this cheating has been done with Euro cars as well, the 1,6 - 2,0 diesels. They dont know how many cars yet, but I am sure that those engines stands for at least 80 % of the total VW/ Audi diesel sales in Europe.