Volkswagen diesel scandal
09-21-15, 05:33 PM
#61
Lexus Fanatic
Actually, bit, my experience has been that there are a lot more copies of enthusiast-mags in dentist-offices than CR. AUTOMOBILE and Car & Driver seem to be the most popular.
And, speaking of CR, though they may like brand-new TDIs, they have generally been critical of used VWs, commenting that their reliability level over the long haul is worse than any other make, though it is unclear if notoriously bad Jaguar and Land Rover are included in those ratings, as they don't always have enough owner-input for CR's data base.
09-21-15, 05:50 PM
#63
Lead Lap
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I worked in government for many years....and we used some contractors ourselves. But in government (which the EPA is part of) an agency is legally responsible if its contractors screw up. In fact, part of my job was not only my own regular work, but reviewing the work those contractors did.
Exactly my point.
Is the EPA going to fine themselves? lol.
The federal government is highly hypocritical. Just look at how they handled the latest GM recall compared to how they treated Toyota.
09-21-15, 07:25 PM
#64
Lead Lap
So again, you're saying we should just ignore VW's blatant lie? You've skirted the essential question.
Last edited by TangoRed; 09-21-15 at 07:53 PM.
09-21-15, 07:26 PM
#65
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
VW stock plummets as Euro markets open
The aftermath...
Source: Autoblog
Despite the admission and the apology by Volkswagen, I still cannot believe that a confident and technologically-advanced automaker such as VW would have to resort to cheating; I guess that it was a false confidence all along.
I would have expected this level of cheating from a smaller, up-and-coming automaker that was (overly-) eager to prove its abilities, an automaker such as Hyundai, or even Mazda, which we know has been struggling (seemingly forever now) to adapt and perfect its SkyActiv-D engine for the American market but has not yet been successful.
The fallout from Volkswagen's installation of an emissions "defeat device" on nearly 500,000 diesel-fueled models in the US is already hitting the automaker hard on the German stock exchange. At one point, the share price plummeted 23 percent to erase the equivalent of $17.6 billion in value. Things eventually bounced back slightly to a still severe 19.23 percent loss, according to Bloomberg as of this writing.
The scandal couldn't come at a worse time for chairman Martin Winterkorn. The VW supervisory board takes up the issue of renewing his contract on September 25, Bloomberg reports. If things get bad enough, the door could be open for a new boss to step in.
Dealers in the US might start feeling the pain from this, as well. Affected 2015 VWs that are still at showrooms are now under a stop sale. Until the issue is straightened out, the Environmental Protection Agency isn't certifying the company's 2016 diesel models with the 2.0 TDI, either.
The diesel emissions problem was first discovered by research from West Virginia University and the International Council on Clean Transportation. In some cases, the engines can produce 40 times more nitrogen oxides than allowed. The automaker could be on the hook for $18 billion in fines for the breach, but the actual figure is expected to be lower.
In response, Winterkorn has issued a public apology and ordered an independent investigation into what happened. The EPA and California Air Resources Board have also been looking into the situation. This could become an international problem, though. According to The Detroit News, European authorities might begin similar inquires to check the automaker's diesel emissions there.
The scandal couldn't come at a worse time for chairman Martin Winterkorn. The VW supervisory board takes up the issue of renewing his contract on September 25, Bloomberg reports. If things get bad enough, the door could be open for a new boss to step in.
Dealers in the US might start feeling the pain from this, as well. Affected 2015 VWs that are still at showrooms are now under a stop sale. Until the issue is straightened out, the Environmental Protection Agency isn't certifying the company's 2016 diesel models with the 2.0 TDI, either.
The diesel emissions problem was first discovered by research from West Virginia University and the International Council on Clean Transportation. In some cases, the engines can produce 40 times more nitrogen oxides than allowed. The automaker could be on the hook for $18 billion in fines for the breach, but the actual figure is expected to be lower.
In response, Winterkorn has issued a public apology and ordered an independent investigation into what happened. The EPA and California Air Resources Board have also been looking into the situation. This could become an international problem, though. According to The Detroit News, European authorities might begin similar inquires to check the automaker's diesel emissions there.
Source: Autoblog
Despite the admission and the apology by Volkswagen, I still cannot believe that a confident and technologically-advanced automaker such as VW would have to resort to cheating; I guess that it was a false confidence all along.
I would have expected this level of cheating from a smaller, up-and-coming automaker that was (overly-) eager to prove its abilities, an automaker such as Hyundai, or even Mazda, which we know has been struggling (seemingly forever now) to adapt and perfect its SkyActiv-D engine for the American market but has not yet been successful.
Last edited by Sulu; 09-21-15 at 07:36 PM.
09-21-15, 07:38 PM
#66
Lexus Champion
09-21-15, 07:41 PM
#67
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Hybrids to slowly replace diesels at Mercedes
Dieselgate may prove to be an opening for Toyota and its hybrid technology. Speed up the hybridization of a majority of the lineup, especially in Europe!
Source: Autoblog
German automakers have had some success bringing diesel-powered vehicles in America in recent years, but that may not last much longer. A product planner from Mercedes-Benz we spoke to in Austria apparently believes hybrid setups may be more favorable in the long run, and electrified hybrids will eventually replace oil burners. That's why most every concept car we've seen in the last few years features some sort of hybrid or plug-in hybrid setup while there have been very few diesels.
"Yes, diesel is technically complex, and very expensive. The additives to reduce particulate matter are very costly. You'll see more hybrids to meet the changing regulations," according to our source. We've seen this exact scenario play out with Mazda, which has struggled to bring its 2.2-liter diesel engine to America, citing the costly process to reduce emissions in order to meet California-level standards while still maintaining suitable performance for the US market. It's certainly interesting that this news comes hot on the heels of revelations that VW, the automaker that offers the most diesel-powered models in the US, was found in violation of emissions rules on its popular 2.0-liter TDI engine.
"Yes, diesel is technically complex, and very expensive. The additives to reduce particulate matter are very costly. You'll see more hybrids to meet the changing regulations," according to our source. We've seen this exact scenario play out with Mazda, which has struggled to bring its 2.2-liter diesel engine to America, citing the costly process to reduce emissions in order to meet California-level standards while still maintaining suitable performance for the US market. It's certainly interesting that this news comes hot on the heels of revelations that VW, the automaker that offers the most diesel-powered models in the US, was found in violation of emissions rules on its popular 2.0-liter TDI engine.
09-21-15, 10:02 PM
#68
Lexus Champion
While all these automakers are beating their heads against the wall desperately trying to meet emissions targets, Tesla Motors moves forward with bringing the electric down to a mass market price. What are Toyota and other auto makers waiting for? Does Toyota not look at their own lineup and realize the most efficient cars they have are partially electric? That's not a clue??????? So what does Toyota do, they waste who knows how much pursuing the hydrogen pipe dream. If Toyota bets their future on hydrogen that blunder will make what VW did look like change under your seat.
Diesel is not the answer, hybrids are a stop gap. I'm not saying all ICE powered and hybrids should be replaced overnight this is not realistic but come on auto industry get your head out of your ***.
Diesel is not the answer, hybrids are a stop gap. I'm not saying all ICE powered and hybrids should be replaced overnight this is not realistic but come on auto industry get your head out of your ***.
09-21-15, 10:09 PM
#69
While all these automakers are beating their heads against the wall desperately trying to meet emissions targets, Tesla Motors moves forward with bringing the electric down to a mass market price. What are Toyota and other auto makers waiting for? Does Toyota not look at their own lineup and realize the most efficient cars they have are partially electric? That's not a clue??????? So what does Toyota do, they waste who knows how much pursuing the hydrogen pipe dream. If Toyota bets their future on hydrogen that blunder will make what VW did look like change under your seat.
Diesel is not the answer, hybrids are a stop gap. I'm not saying all ICE powered and hybrids should be replaced overnight this is not realistic but come on auto industry get your head out of your ***.
Diesel is not the answer, hybrids are a stop gap. I'm not saying all ICE powered and hybrids should be replaced overnight this is not realistic but come on auto industry get your head out of your ***.
Unless there is a huge break through in battery tech, don't expect ICE to go anywhere.
09-22-15, 06:21 AM
#71
Pole Position
While all these automakers are beating their heads against the wall desperately trying to meet emissions targets, Tesla Motors moves forward with bringing the electric down to a mass market price. What are Toyota and other auto makers waiting for? Does Toyota not look at their own lineup and realize the most efficient cars they have are partially electric? That's not a clue??????? So what does Toyota do, they waste who knows how much pursuing the hydrogen pipe dream. If Toyota bets their future on hydrogen that blunder will make what VW did look like change under your seat.
Diesel is not the answer, hybrids are a stop gap. I'm not saying all ICE powered and hybrids should be replaced overnight this is not realistic but come on auto industry get your head out of your ***.
Diesel is not the answer, hybrids are a stop gap. I'm not saying all ICE powered and hybrids should be replaced overnight this is not realistic but come on auto industry get your head out of your ***.
Polishing the turd known as ICE didn't even make sense twenty years ago and sure doesn't make sense now. Its such an outdated technology that remains relevant due to "convenience" of refueling infrastructure.
What was the first scare they threw at you regarding EVs?
"How you gonna recharge it when you go for a long trip? OMG!!! No way!!! You need hydrogen, its much more convenient."
And then they have a lock on the price of hydrogen just like they have on oil today. Whenever they feel like it they will drop down the price of the unit and still make money or if they want to make major $$ just jack it up and claim its basic principles of supply and demand. What a bunch of bs just like a bs that suddenly Saudis found a way to make oil cheaper just to get the shail oil industry out of the game and they are still turning profit at $40/barrel. So how much money were they making on $140/barrel fueled with all the talk how oil will be around from only hundred more years? Ask Exxon on their record shattering profits during late 2000s.
OK that was a rant
Im rooting for all EV with a charging infrastructure embedded underneath the pavement of the road just like rc railway toys but without an actual contact with the surface. No more gas stations, no more truck refilling the gas stations, no more cargo ships and nonsense like that.
09-22-15, 07:16 AM
#72
Lexus Champion
Just two days after apologizing for cheating on US emissions procedures, Volkswagen CEO Dr. Martin Winterkorn has been reportedly removed from his position as the man in charge of the world’s largest automaker.
Winterkorn will reportedly be replaced later this week by Porsche CEO Matthias Müller.
Müller became CEO of Porsche AG in 2010 and worked for Audi from 1977 until 2007 when he was placed in charge of global vehicle development for all Volkswagen brands.
A pre-planned board meeting was already scheduled for September 25th to evaluate whether or not to extend Winterkorn’s term as CEO.
A VW spokesman has said the reports of Winterkorn’s ousting in favor of Müller are “ridiculous.”
The news comes as Volkswagen today announced that the problem of emissions cheating isn’t exclusive to the 500,000 TDI diesel models sold in the US between 2009 and 2015. The issue is instead a global one, with as many as 11 million cars affected.
After Volkswagen stock tumbled 19% in Monday trading, wiping roughly $17 billion off the company’s market cap, shares continued to plunge dropping an additional 20 percent in mid-day trading.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...%20Subscribers
^^^^ not sure how true....why would a Porsche guy wanna take over this mess?
Winterkorn will reportedly be replaced later this week by Porsche CEO Matthias Müller.
Müller became CEO of Porsche AG in 2010 and worked for Audi from 1977 until 2007 when he was placed in charge of global vehicle development for all Volkswagen brands.
A pre-planned board meeting was already scheduled for September 25th to evaluate whether or not to extend Winterkorn’s term as CEO.
A VW spokesman has said the reports of Winterkorn’s ousting in favor of Müller are “ridiculous.”
The news comes as Volkswagen today announced that the problem of emissions cheating isn’t exclusive to the 500,000 TDI diesel models sold in the US between 2009 and 2015. The issue is instead a global one, with as many as 11 million cars affected.
After Volkswagen stock tumbled 19% in Monday trading, wiping roughly $17 billion off the company’s market cap, shares continued to plunge dropping an additional 20 percent in mid-day trading.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...%20Subscribers
^^^^ not sure how true....why would a Porsche guy wanna take over this mess?
09-22-15, 07:38 AM
#74
so VW skirted regulations to give consumers a better vehicle than what would otherwise have been? Yea claiming $17 billion and lining govt pockets is really going to help people. VW is going to pass that cost down one way or another. Yet only $900M slap on the wrist for Govt Motors that directly killed people and no criminal charges? Isnt the EPA supposed to be verifying this since 2008? So if this ends up dramatically increasing the price of TDI products from VW is this good for consumers overall?
I want to know what this "certain pollutant" is that is associated with this 40x number. CO2? NOx?
I want to know what this "certain pollutant" is that is associated with this 40x number. CO2? NOx?
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; 09-22-15 at 07:56 AM.
09-22-15, 08:08 AM
#75
Dieselgate may prove to be an opening for Toyota and its hybrid technology. Speed up the hybridization of a majority of the lineup, especially in Europe!
Source: Autoblog
Source: Autoblog
In other news, TMC/TME should sell around 170k-200k hybrids in Europe in 2015... pretty good numbers - 22% of overall sales. Hybrids are offered only in part of Toyota fleet, so with Rav4 coming, this should increase next year. After that, with Prius and small suv, they should grow even more.