Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

^ the current GS eased the public into the Spindle design. Four years later and we've come full circle, the 4.5GS very closely resembles the concept which has manifested itself into the whole Lexus Line



Since the hybrid version hasn't appeared yet I'll just pretend the above is what it is

TangoRed

^^^That design looks better than what we're dealing with this facelift.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

and imho lexus started it with the fsport and they are milking it just as much as the others. the f sport and f are so confusing a lot of people can't distinguish. then it comes all the m235i. i don't like all those moves for sure. i think every car has their own merit. i am not a fan of the cla45 but it doesn't have certain performance. fwd is not a death sentence by default -- honda has proven it too

ydooby

Agreed. Can't believe they didn't use this concept in the first place.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I agree, though I feel the fire and pitchforks will mostly go away once the F-Sport is revealed

Och

iTrader: (3)

I disagree with that, there were BMW's and MB's which carried M and AMG packages, but were not M or AMG cars long before Lexus even introduced F and F sport. And F sport is a subtle package, they don't make it a part of model name like say X5 M50d, or M550d or M235i. And don't get me wrong, I actually got myself the m235i, and its an awesome car, but while the M badging is cool I still think it should only belong on true M cars.


I don't know if I agree with that, even Honda knew better when it came to the two PROPER sports cars that they ever made - the NSX and S2K, which were both RWD.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

no, m sport and the m badge together with the 235 or whatever, it came out after fsport was introduced. fsport came out i think around 2010 or 2012 time frame? they didn't have msport back then. mb from factory never had/has amg badge on anything but amg cars. all the amg badges are put on by dealerships.

i consider m sport package just like the fsport package, it's just a package with a m / f badge on it.

and we are definitely on the same page that the m badge shouldn't be on non-m cars. i blame fully on marketing. and from a distant and clearly to most people, they can't tell difference between f and fsport.

i am not saying fwd is the proper way to do a sports car, but i am saying fwd doesn't automatically mean it's inferior. both the integra type r and civic si i think they are pretty decent fun cars. nothing like s2k or nsx but it's not like traditional fwd imho. same with cla45.

and again, i am not saying i am a fan, i am not. but i am just saying there is some merit given the amg philosophy since the beginning (which is different from bmw m imho, or at least originally)

Och

iTrader: (3)

But they certainly offered M sport and AMG packages for non M and AMG cars way before F-sport even existed, which included all sorts of body accessories, wheels, exhaust brake and suspension components, etc. A neighbor of mine has a red mid/late 00's CLK500 with AMG badge (likely dealer installed like you pointed out) but it does have wheels with AMG stamps as well - so it can confuse a lot of people out.

Yeah, but once again, with F sport they are not making the F a part of the model name. Its not GS350-F, it just has little F-sport badges on the sides. I don't really have an issue with that, and most people won't even notice that badge - so there is not much confusion. BMW on the other hand is making the M a part of the models name, and it does cause confusion - and in case of X5M50d it kind of gets lost in the clusterpluck of letters and numbers.

But whatever, its marketing and its clearly working for them. These extra bits attract buyers, so everyone is jumping on the band wagon. And while I'm not fond of this marketing, but if it makes Lexus offer more customization to spice up their traditionally boring line up - let it be.




I'm not sweating it much either - the CLA isn't for me, but if it helps MB bring younger buyers, let them. In the end it will probably diminish some of the prestige that comes with AMG badge, but at the same time help their bottom line.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

they called it msport and amg package, but they actually carried no badge on the cars at all until after lexus started doing fsport. but you do have a good point with some mb with amg wheels (that says amg).

i am not very sure, i have had more than a few of my non-car friends pointing out a regular fsport (from the rear) saying oh so that's the lexus super sports car right? they saw the fsport badge. it might not be with the is250 badge, but effect is there

for sure the marketing is working for all manufacturers, no doubt. but i am sure you and i both agree from a pure enthusiast point of view, this is quite sad. the whole exclusivity is down the toilet big time

pman6

and the new GS looks like the new camry of it's class.
It just needs the nike LEDs.

RNM GS3

There is no doubt that BMW and MB are milking the //M and AMG naming by offering styling packages and various accessories. Lexus is smart to do the same with F sport.

My issue with Lexus is the "F" brand is WEAK - LFA was great but no replacement. ISF discontinued.
RCF is the only true F model and not sure why the upcoming GSF is an F car, should be GS500F.
It has not gained traction with enthusiasts and most F sport branded cars offer no real performance benefit.
So Lexus started putting the F badging on everything before truly having real performance F models. Putting the carriage before the horse so to speak.

//M and AMG have great history and a full lineup of true performance models that give credibility to each brand.

RNM GS3

If you dont feel the A6 is a bland design then you are from a different planet and your hatred for BMW is really apparent. A6 has FWD proportions unlike the 5 which has long hood, short overhangs etc.

A great design will still be great 10-20 years from now. Everytime i see an E39 on the road, it still looks amazing and same for 2GS. E60 on the other hand is still awkward.
F10 is considered a GREAT design by most people and has BMW evolutionary heritage styling unlike the E60 before it.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Yes, the F brand is weak, but at least its something thats better than nothing. These vanilla GS350, E350 and 535s are also the high volume sellers, and they are trying to spice them up to be a bit more exciting than a Camry.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Everyone has their preferences. I personally like the F10 very much, as well as the 4GS. Don't care too much for the Audi, but utterly can't stomach the fugly, bland E class. Never liked these pretentious miserable crapbuckets in any generation.

And I'm totally with you on E39 and 2GS - they are truly timeless.

dseag2

I'm an Audi owner and think the A6 is the most bland sedan in its class. That's why when I traded my last S5 for a sedan I went with a 4GS. The 5 Series still looks great and so does the GS (in F Sport trim). IMHO, the E Class is an angular mess that they have been trying to fix and will finally be cleaned up when they sprinkle it with the S Class "fairy dust" like they did with the C Class.