Quadro

This is apples and oranges. What you described in case of a Jeep is caused by a diff lock. Part-time 4WD system does not imply that any of the differentials are locked. It simply means that the 4WD system is not active all the time.

Toys4RJill

Part time has to lock the differential.

TangoRed

A cursory google of "part-time 4wd" will describe what I said over and over again from tons of sources. Part-time does indeed imply that.

Yup.

Toys4RJill

I think quadro is mixing things up a little. True part time 4WD is just that, part time you engage 4Hi by the driver. The Escalade builds on part time and adds an auto mode.

Ideally, the LX torsen fill time 4WD is probably the best 4WD system on the market today, but it has no lockers. The G wagons full time set up with F/C/R lockers is far more capable.

Quadro

It has a center locker.

Quadro

Yes I got confused thanks for correcting.

But the point stands -- Escalade uses an inferior 4WD arrangement and it gives it couple MPG advantage in return.

SW17LS

But inferior to what end? An Escalade needs 4WD for snow, launching a boat maybe, that's all. It's more than adequate for what consumers are going to use it for.

That's the issue with the LX, they're asking people to accept limitations because of its superior 4WD system...a superiority that they neither need, want or even understand.

Extremely few of these vehicles will ever see anything off-road beyond a dirt or gravel road back to a cabin or a ski lodge. Something quite frankly I could probably get to in my AWD LS. So having features that make it better running up sand dunes or dealing with punishment overseas at the expense of power, agility, efficiency is a loosing proposition IMHO. This vehicle isn't going to win anybody over out of a Range Rover or an Escalade, it will continue to be a very slow selling niche model in the U.S.

Toys4RJill

Whatever. The center diff doesn't make all that much of a difference. I like the 4WD system in the LX, but it is shame they could not of gone the extra step and put in true front and rear lockers lime the MB G Wagon.

Toys4RJill

The Escalade 4WD system is not that much inferior, however the Torsen diff is worth the price of having full time working all the time.

As for the folks really using the LX off road, most of it is marketing. The on road characteristics are more important these days.

mmarshall

That's a good point, and one reason why Subaru stays with a full-time, split-torque system front to rear instead of the transfer-only-upon-slippage. I agree with ydooby that it's better to prevent slippage in the first place than to let it start and then try and counteract it by shifting torque to the wheels still with traction (if they still have traction). Using a full-time system also helps keep hardware lubed and in good internal condition by not having some differentials shut down for long stretches on dry roads (when the AWD is not in use) without much oil circulating inside of them.

TangoRed

We're long past that being an issue. Not only do most of these systems react with an eighth of a turn of a slipping wheel (or better), but they're designed to last even though they'll be inactive for long periods of time. Many systems nowadays don't stay inactive very long at all anyways- in snow mode they may start at a 50/50 torque split or preload the front/rear axle (depending on the primary driven axle) to prevent wheelspin during aggressive starts.

spwolf

So LX needs to have front lockers like G wagon but Escalade is fine with much worse part time system.

Yes of course, it makes sense.

I have a feeling that you dont know that LC 200 has torsen as well as lockable front and rear lockers (optional).

Toys4RJill

I agree, there is not much of an issue (if any) with the modern AWD set ups. I haven't looked in a while, but some AWD set ups like the RX are electronic in the rear in that there is not link mechanically to the front.

Subaru Symmetrical AWD is part truth and a lot of fluff marketing.

Toys4RJill

The LC does not have front or rear lockers for NA. You did not know that? Compared to the G-wagon, the LC is limited in 4WD capability.

And what difference does it make that the LC has a torsen diff, I didn't mention it because this is the LX thread.

spwolf

It has them where people need it and where they use it to go off road... it matters because few posts up you mentioned torsen diff does not have front and rear lockers... it can have whatever they want to put in it, like they did in LC.

As usual, every post is full of contradictions and clashes with previous posts.

When it comes to LX, updated crawl control feature will get you out of worse spots than if you had all diffs locked... not for offroading for sports, but way more useful in real life.