mmarshall

No. Jill lives in Toronto, Ontario....across the border in Canada, not far from Detroit. That's why I brought up the subject of Canadian and Ontario tax laws rather than the U.S. And at today's exchange rate, the U.S. dollar is worth about 1.3 Canadian dollars.

situman

Then you are hoping battery sizes will be standardized for all vehicle sizes, pray the swapped battery is not defective or in good working condition, fully charged, have the correct size battery for your car (if different size cars require different size batteries), hope the technician screwed the battery back on correctly and the connections are correctly connected. The main issue is, how many battery swapping stations will it require to service millions of electric vehicle battery swappings in the future?

bagwell

yep, $8500 tax incentives there.

Nextourer

Yep. Toyota hybrids are just about there (Camry, Prius family). I think the Fusion Hybrid is also well priced. Lexus performance hybrids command a premium (although the ES and CT are reasonably priced. I think, comparatively equipped, the ES300h is about $3,000 more IIR the early reviews correctly)

Canada lol. We don't typically get the deals you see in the U.S. (lower purchasing power, higher sales taxes). The Prius PHV in the U.S. has had its price lowered to $32,000 with a small tax credit. In Canada, it still starts at $35,905 and tops out at $41,140 before a $1,495 freight/PDI (Destination) charge and anywhere between 5-15% sales tax, basically it making it a $50k car in places like Nova Scotia)

Hopefully the Gen 2 Volt will be reasonably priced. ON/QC have generous incentives. B.C. brought back incentives up to $6k (Up to $5k for PHV/EVs, $6k for fuel cells)

gnode

HI all. Haven't posted here in a while. Had an IS350 for several years and recently had a need to change to a more practical family car.

I bought a Nissan Leaf. Not as fast as the IS350 but plenty quick for normal driving. Typically leave gas cars at every light, in part because I have no concerns of MPG - no need to accelerate gently to save gas and instant 200 lbs of torque.

The Leaf is smoother than any Lexus other than maybe an LS. In fact, when we looked to replace my wife's old car we test drove an ES, NX, CT,and RX and I was actually annoyed by the noise, vibration, and jerkiness of acceleration gear shifts. In short, Lexuses feel like sloppy trash to me now. Still love the look and various features inside, but the ride just feels no bueno. Kind of like how after I was used to a Lexus and then would ride in someone's random economy car. That "eww this car is rough, I am spoiled" feeling.

Moving on.

I really wish Toyota/Lexus would abandon their fuel cell ambitions. If they could make something like the CT200h as a full electric drive instead of a hybrid, I would be all over it. Frankly it would fill a niche that is really lacking in the electric market and I bet they could do it for under $45k, probably in the high 30s after tax credit price.

I am one of the people that the article refers to as never going back to gas. I will never buy a gas car with the possible exception of buying some kind of classic car as a 3rd car for shows/weekend/racing, but not to daily drive.

Many misconceptions have been dealt with above by others but I will just touch on a couple more points.

It takes 6-9 kWh of electricity to produce one gallon of gas. Refineries don't run on lollipops and rainbows. My Nissan Leaf averages 4.3 miles of range on 1 kWh of electricity. So, for the electricity required to produce 1 gallon of gasoline, my Nissan Leaf can travel 25.8 - 38.7 miles. Read that again until it sinks in.

Instead of using electricity to make gas, you can put that electricity into an electric car and drive almost 40 miles on it.

This means: Any criticisms along the lines of pollution of fuel source or "how will the electric grid manage??" are completely bogus arguments. In fact, by using less gasoline, the electric grid will be better off. Every gallon of gas not produced saves 6-9 kWh. Then that electricity generation goes to a battery instead and the car travels further than it would have on gas. In no version of reality does any gasoline car on the planet pollute less than an electric car.

And that doesn't even begin to account for all the work or pollution involved in the production and consumption of the gas.

For most people, gasoline = make work.

While a CT200h can get over 40mpg, I still would not want to own one. Why? Because I love never having to go to a gas station. I love having 0 maintenance. Lexus dealers are nice, but I would rather not have to go in the first place. The Leaf is literally: rotate tires, brake fluid some day, brake pads probably never. No belts. No oil. No alternator. No recalls that involve fixing cam gears. None of that noise.

And it's not just the time saved by not going to gas stations or all the other maintenance needed by an ICE car - but also the time saved of not having to earn the money for all that. If you do the math, you will find that you probably save a week or more of your life per year by owning an electric simply for never having to go out of your way to fuel, get oil changes, recall, fix something that broke, etc, and the time in the office to earn that money.

gnode

Oh and in one key way even the base model Leaf is more luxurious. Sure you can remote start a gas car. But on the Leaf I have it scheduled to be at whatever temp I want automatically in the morning. So in winter, it's nice and warm inside without poisoning my family by running in the garage.

bagwell

yep, attempted to gas up my wife's car last nite....god it was slow....after about 10 mins I gave up and tried another pump....same thing...even slower.....gave went home with about 1/2 tank of gas

sweet feature!

LeX2K

I've had this conversation with a few people and they just gave me a blank stare, like they never considered that it take resources to produce gasoline.

ydooby

This sounds plausible until you realize how much energy is consumed in the manufacturing and recycling of batteries enough to power an electric car for a few years before they need to be replaced, under warranty or not.

LeX2K

The entire car has to be produced and then recycled not just the battery pack so why do you single out only one component? How much energy does it take to melt the alloy and then cast an engine block, heads, crank, cams, pistons, rods, manifolds, fuel rails etc. etc. that is not powered by pixie dust.

gengar

Folks, the topic of the OP is a survey of EV owners/drivers regarding various purchasing behaviors. The merits (or lack thereof) of electricity vs gas production/distribution/whatever can be discussed in any of the plethora of existing threads on that topic on the CL boards - no need to take this thread OT to do so.

gnode

I detect sarcasm but we are accustomed to buying gas every week so we don't think about it until you don't need to anymore. Never again do you get in the car in the morning and realize you don't have enough gas to get to work. You don't have to plan to go out of your way for gas. You are just full every morning.

Simple example though. Someone making $100k is averaging $50 per hour pay. If they buy $50 of gas per week, that is 52 hours of pay to be able to burn gas. More than one week in the office, not even counting the 520 minutes at the gas station (using your number). Add in oil changes and other maintenance and you definitely spend at least a week from internal combustion baggage. You are desensitized to this, but those are the numbers.

Leaf warranty is 100k miles battery will have over 70% capacity remaining or Nissan gives you a new one. If for some reason you need a replacement outside of warranty, such as a car wreck, you or your insurance would have to pay $5,500. What does a Lexus engine cost you figure?

Do you have any sources to justify your concern about energy used to produce a battery? They are basically 100s of oversized AA batteries arranged in packs. Primary ingredients are common, like graphite which is just carbon. Lithium actually makes up a small amount of the battery and is also readily available. I see this concern brought up frequently buy anti electric car people but they never seem able to provide a source to justify their concern.

GQD_GS4

All the skeptics should spend a week with a Tesla or Leaf. These plug ins are great. i really think it is the wave of the future. just wait til the price point comes down. Sure, i care about the environment, but i care more about going to the gas station less and less. I got better things to do with my time. I only hang onto my other gas powered cars for nostalgia. And yes, my next vehicle will be a plug in also. Hope the GLE550e will be nice.

LexBob2

It's probably my range anxiety showing, but is it really practical to consider a longer trip in an EV? It seems like you have to make detours to get to charging stations, and then the time needed to recharge before getting back on your route. What if the stations are busy and you have to wait to plug in? I may be missing something but that's what I see as the biggest drawback to having and EV as my primary car. It seems like a gas engine or hybrid vehicle would be needed for these occasions. Am I overlooking something?

LeX2K

You're not overlooking anything range anxiety is a real thing and you do have to plan a long trip around charging stations in most areas. But more and more are being built and hopefully electric car sales will get to a point where the demand will cause chargers to pop up everywhere.

Let's be honest here the only real downside to an electric car is the battery tech is not there yet, if the capacity were doubled there would be almost nothing left to complain about.