Interesting...Toyota's Lexus Testing Haggle-Free Sales at 12 U.S. Stores
05-31-16, 01:38 PM
#331
Lexus Fanatic
Dealers don't have to be on TrueCar. If they hate it, they don't have to participate. What you want to do is get to the Internet sales team. Submit inquiries about specific vehicles from their website, whatever it takes to get there. They will be accustomed to negotiating online.
05-31-16, 02:23 PM
#332
06-01-16, 11:23 PM
#333
yeah, salesperson now 'hooks' the customers, and finance person 'reels em in', bamboozling them AND LYING with confusing financing, add-ons, fees, charges, endless paperwork to wear the flailing customer down... it's a HORRIBLE process.
i agree!!!
some people like wrestling alligators too, but not me. 
i agree!!!
some people like wrestling alligators too, but not me. Lexus "Haggle Free" will give you a more "convenient" (expensive) experience. With all the same addon pitches.
06-02-16, 12:01 AM
#334
This is the price we want you to pay, and there is no negotiation. (Does that sound better?)
By the way, here's all the services we were selling before, we are still selling them!
By the way, here's all the services we were selling before, we are still selling them!
06-02-16, 12:18 PM
#335
A lot of the paperwork is in response as a preventative response to past lawsuits, such as an agreement on what is owed, title statements, legally required documents from the state, all with the goal not to get sued. It's not going away with the "haggle free" pricing either.
Always haggle.
Always haggle.
Last edited by Chocolate; 06-02-16 at 12:36 PM.
06-02-16, 12:24 PM
#336
06-02-16, 12:24 PM
#337
Lexus Fanatic
Tell me this........do you negotiate every month with your utility bills, cable-TV/Internet fees, auto/home insurance, taxes, tuition for your son or daughter, grocery-shopping, postal-charges, buying furniture or appliances, other things at the mall, or any of the other endless bills and expenses that we all face each day and month? No, of course not....this is not the Middle East and/or Third-World countries with their bazaars and open-air markets. So, then, why is all of a sudden the end of the world if we don't negotiate when we buy or lease a vehicle? Reputable dealerships (somewhat like the Fitzgerald chain we have locally here in the MD suburbs of D.C.) have a reasonable system where they offer a significant (and usually reasonable) no-haggle discount. For just a few dollars more, it comes with some added free service and customer-perks.....again, reasonable IMO.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-02-16 at 12:29 PM.
06-02-16, 01:05 PM
#338
Lead Lap
Tell me this........do you negotiate every month with your utility bills, cable-TV/Internet fees, auto/home insurance, taxes, tuition for your son or daughter, grocery-shopping, postal-charges, buying furniture or appliances, other things at the mall, or any of the other endless bills and expenses that we all face each day and month? No, of course not....this is not the Middle East and/or Third-World countries with their bazaars and open-air markets. So, then, why is all of a sudden the end of the world if we don't negotiate when we buy or lease a vehicle? Reputable dealerships (somewhat like the Fitzgerald chain we have locally here in the MD suburbs of D.C.) have a reasonable system where they offer a significant (and usually reasonable) no-haggle discount. For just a few dollars more, it comes with some added free service and customer-perks.....again, reasonable IMO.
06-02-16, 01:30 PM
#339
Lexus Fanatic
But why take away choice and force one price for all with those added customer perks and free services? Especially when that type of sales model is already available through other channels like TrueCar? Which demographic is currently being ignored with the current system?
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Tell me this........do you negotiate every month with your utility bills, cable-TV/Internet fees, auto/home insurance, taxes, tuition for your son or daughter, grocery-shopping, postal-charges, buying furniture or appliances, other things at the mall, or any of the other endless bills and expenses that we all face each day and month?
You should call your cable company. I call them every year and negotiate a better cost vs canceling my service. They always give me the promotional rates and I save over $100 a month that way. They're not going to offer me that if I don't call and they don't think they would loose me if they didn't. The world doesn't work that way. Over the past 10 years I've saved at least $10,000 on cable costs by making sure that I am always getting the best cost. Thats real money. I just called last week when my insurance policy reset and negotiated the cost of it down $500 a year. It adds up.
How about your salary at your job? You've never negotiated a salary? Employers don't offer the best they can do out of the gate, if you've never negotiated a salary you've under-earned throughout your life, probably by 5-10%, or even more.
Theres a saying, "You don't get what you deserve in life, you get what you negotiate" and thats very true. Unwillingness to attempt to negotiate will cost you a huge sum of money throughout your life. People who pay you and you pay as a patron will appreciate it, but you are missing out on a lot of money you and your family could have had in your own bank account.
So, then, why is all of a sudden the end of the world if we don't negotiate when we buy or lease a vehicle? Reputable dealerships (somewhat like the Fitzgerald chain we have locally here in the MD suburbs of D.C.) have a reasonable system where they offer a significant (and usually reasonable) no-haggle discount. For just a few dollars more, it comes with some added free service and customer-perks.....again, reasonable IMO.
Good buddy of mine just got his Hyundai Santa Fe back from 40 days at service at Fitzgerald Hyundai for a rattling roof. What a nightmare, never heard of a bigger mess of incompetence when servicing a car...
So, I am completely unimpressed with the "FitzWay". In fact...seeing that they're one of the only very local Hyundai dealers I would consider that a big reason not to buy a Hyundai.
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-02-16 at 01:39 PM.
06-02-16, 01:43 PM
#340
Lexus Champion
But why take away choice and force one price for all with those added customer perks and free services? Especially when that type of sales model is already available through other channels like TrueCar? Which demographic is currently being ignored with the current system?
Source: Toronto Star
Here is some background on him, the GM of Thornhill Hyundai:
So cars don’t interest you, even though they’re your career?
It wasn’t something that was planned. I had this passion to help people. I’m from Chile and I wanted to get into the police force or real estate, but I knew my English wasn’t good enough, so I said ‘Let’s try the car industry and see what happens.’
And what did happen?
I was a salesperson (for Nissan) in the early 1990s, and I went on a test drive. The customer asked me about gear ratios and I didn’t know the answer, so I said ‘I’ll ask a technician when we get back.’ Then he asked about the warranty, and I said, ‘Do you mind if I look at the warranty booklet?’ Then he asked another question and I didn’t know, so he stopped the car and said, ‘Why don’t we turn back right now and give me a competent salesperson?’ I went in the bathroom with my eyes full of tears. That set the groundwork for me to understand the industry from the inside out. Seven years later, I became the top salesperson in the country (for Acura).
It wasn’t something that was planned. I had this passion to help people. I’m from Chile and I wanted to get into the police force or real estate, but I knew my English wasn’t good enough, so I said ‘Let’s try the car industry and see what happens.’
And what did happen?
I was a salesperson (for Nissan) in the early 1990s, and I went on a test drive. The customer asked me about gear ratios and I didn’t know the answer, so I said ‘I’ll ask a technician when we get back.’ Then he asked about the warranty, and I said, ‘Do you mind if I look at the warranty booklet?’ Then he asked another question and I didn’t know, so he stopped the car and said, ‘Why don’t we turn back right now and give me a competent salesperson?’ I went in the bathroom with my eyes full of tears. That set the groundwork for me to understand the industry from the inside out. Seven years later, I became the top salesperson in the country (for Acura).
So Greg Carrasco is redesigning the way he does business: He is bringing a single-price system (no haggling) and he will not hire people with auto sales industry experience. It is the same being done at big-box electronics stores -- no more pushy, commissioned salespeople who try to sell you everything. Now you can walk into one of these big-box stores and actually browse without being bothered by someone trying to sell you some high-margin but otherwise useless product.
Now you’re running a Hyundai dealership, but not the conventional way. What’s different?
No salesperson here is on commission. They get salary, plus bonuses for customer satisfaction. We’re also in the process of launching a one-price policy. The commission system is adversarial. Customers who are good at negotiating get a better deal, while those who aren’t pay more and keep the dealership in business, and I fundamentally disagree with that principle. I do not hire anyone with industry experience. If you’ve worked at a car dealership before, I will not hire you. I don’t want to have to “un-train” bad habits.
What’s the reaction from customers?
The biggest thing we hear is, ‘What’s the catch?’ and there isn’t one. We have to fight the deeply-rooted cynicism that our industry has bred. If you want to test drive ten cars, no problem. If you want numbers to cross-shop, no problem. If you come in with a trade, we’ll give you a number, and we’ll buy the trade at that price even if you go to another dealer.
No salesperson here is on commission. They get salary, plus bonuses for customer satisfaction. We’re also in the process of launching a one-price policy. The commission system is adversarial. Customers who are good at negotiating get a better deal, while those who aren’t pay more and keep the dealership in business, and I fundamentally disagree with that principle. I do not hire anyone with industry experience. If you’ve worked at a car dealership before, I will not hire you. I don’t want to have to “un-train” bad habits.
What’s the reaction from customers?
The biggest thing we hear is, ‘What’s the catch?’ and there isn’t one. We have to fight the deeply-rooted cynicism that our industry has bred. If you want to test drive ten cars, no problem. If you want numbers to cross-shop, no problem. If you come in with a trade, we’ll give you a number, and we’ll buy the trade at that price even if you go to another dealer.
06-02-16, 01:50 PM
#341
Lexus Fanatic
Here is what I found particularly interesting, and true. Those who do haggle get a better price than those who do not haggle. People may not wish to negotiate on the price for any number of reasons, including not liking the adversarial process (I, for one, really hate the adversarial process), not good at negotiating prices or just do not have the time for all the back-and-forth (I do not want to spend the better part of a Saturday sitting in a car dealership waiting for the salesperson or finance person). People who do not negotiate are subsidizing the business, which is unfair.
Is it fair that I as a strong negotiator who does the time to do his research into values and pricing will have to pay more so that these people who don't want to expend any effort can pay less?
What is happening to this country?
Last edited by SW17LS; 06-02-16 at 01:59 PM.
06-02-16, 02:15 PM
#342
Lexus Fanatic
How about your salary at your job? You've never negotiated a salary? Employers don't offer the best they can do out of the gate, if you've never negotiated a salary you've under-earned throughout your life, probably by 5-10%, or even more.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-02-16 at 02:29 PM.
06-02-16, 02:23 PM
#343
Lexus Fanatic
What they do is put you on all the promotional plans they give new customers, and rebates whether you qualify for them or not. The customer retention reps have the authority to do that to keep you.
Try it tomorrow, I guarantee you'll save money.
Thats called negotiating. Had I not called, and told them I would leave unless I received a discount on my service I would continue to pay $295.
Try calling your credit card companies and tell them that you need a lower interest rate in order to keep the account open? Voila.
Way more is negotiable than you think, you just don't put forth the effort.
LOL. I spent 33 out of my 38 working years in the Federal Government (NOAA/FAA). To "negotiate" my salary (even with a promotion or step-raise), I would have had to deal with 435 House members, 100 Senators, and the President of the United States.
06-02-16, 02:26 PM
#344
Lexus Fanatic
But why take away choice and force one price for all with those added customer perks and free services? Especially when that type of sales model is already available through other channels like TrueCar? Which demographic is currently being ignored with the current system?
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-02-16 at 02:32 PM.
06-03-16, 11:10 AM
#345
Lead Lap
Well, my point was not necessarily to debate the merits or not of haggle-free buying (plenty of other posters have already debated that in this thread)...but simply to point out that that type of negotiating is done with few if any other things in life (except for maybe purchasing a house outright...in many cases, you can't even negotiate rent, unless you are renting from a private individual).
I do agree that as a business, introducing negotiations is a terrible practice since their end profit from the transaction is subject to variation, but from a buyers perspective it offers flexibility and real value. Business are in the business of making a profit, anything that can increase that is golden.