GS69

@ Last, Honda & Toyota PrePare for Turbo Charge

It's a cry echoing through the halls of Honda: The turbos are coming! The turbos are coming!

And it's about time. Japan's Big 3 -- Honda, Toyota and Nissan -- are conspicuously late to the turbo party. Walk onto a Honda or Toyota lot and you won't see a single vehicle with a turbo under the hood. At Nissan, only the Juke crossover and the fire-breathing GT-R supercar use them.

Meanwhile, Ford and some European brands use turbocharged engines extensively, as do an increasing number of models from other U.S. makes and the Korean brands.

What explains Japan's moving so late to turbos? They didn't need to until now.

"The Japanese were able to wait longer to adopt these technologies because they could," said Ed Kim, vice president of industry analysis at AutoPacific. "They had less to prove to the buying public."

Honda, Toyota and Nissan had many models that were at or near the top of their segments for fuel economy without adopting technologies such as turbos, direct injection and multispeed or continuously variable transmissions, or using them more sparingly than the rest of the industry.

This made them appealing to car buyers, as well as government regulators watching emissions and fuel economy averages. Waiting also saved these automakers piles of money that they could invest in developing longer-term strategies such as Nissan's Leaf electric car or Toyota and Honda's hydrogen fuel cell cars.

But these brands are beginning to reach the efficiency limits of their older technologies. To keep pace with rivals -- and regulators -- Japan's 3 are planning big changes over the next 5 years.

Honda will lead the turbo charge, taking advantage of an opportunity to inject some power into its bread-and-butter products. The automaker's new Civic, debuting in production form this year, will offer a 1.5-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine. Later versions of the Accord midsize sedan and CR-V crossover will also use that engine.

These 3 nameplates make up the backbone of Honda's lineup: In 2014 they accounted for more than 1 million sales, or 68% of Honda Motor Co.'s U.S. volume. As such they will have to carry the bulk of Honda's fuel-economy compliance burden.

"Downsized turbocharged engines offer the power that the customer wants along with the efficiencies of fuel economy and the benefits that go along with the lightweighting," Frank Paluch, president of Honda R&D Americas, told Automotive News.

Toyota's approach will be more measured in the coming years. A 2.0-liter turbocharged 4-cylinder engine will replace a V-6 in several Toyota and Lexus nameplates, including the Camry and Lexus IS.

But Toyota won't yet replace its mainstream 4-cylinder engines with turbos. Instead, look for larger direct-injected engines that use the more efficient Atkinson cycle combustion, and a broader use of CVTs.

"The powertrain is still an area where we see ourselves as being able to squeeze out a significant amount of efficiency," said Andrew Coetzee, Toyota's group vice president for product planning.

Nissan, meanwhile, has embraced CVTs in the name of efficiency. Its adoption of turbos will be slower than Honda's and Toyota's. In the meantime, it will focus on adding direct injection to its engines.

Not all the changes coming from Japan are under the hood. Nissan, Honda and Toyota also plan to make up lost ground in infotainment systems.

"Once upon a time Japan was thought as the ultimate tech mecca, and now they're behind on infotainment technologies," AutoPacific's Kim said. "So look for some real progress in terms of getting their infotainment systems up to date."

You can reach David Undercoffler at undercoffler@crain.com.

situman

I hope they will tune the 2.0T to around 270hp or so in new Camrys and possibly the ESesesese. How do you explain to a customer the new camry only pumps out 235hp or so compared to a smooth V6 with loads more power and refinement?

UDel

This writer must be unaware of the current issues with 4 cyl turbo's that they are proving more unreliable then 6 cylinders, they are not getting better fuel economy then the 6 cylinders they are replacing and in some cases worse, and they are not as smooth or refined as the 6 cylinders they are replacing.

The main reason there are so many 4 cyl turbo's in the market now is because of pressure from gov/politicians/CAFE, not because they are the better solution for modern cars. I'll take a 6 cylinder any day over a over stressed turbo 4 cyl.

Fizzboy7

CVT's I thought were declining, not gaining in popularity. Audi just dropped theirs and I recall another brand doing so as well.

spwolf

i am not aware of any current issues with 2.0t from Toyota :-)

spwolf

lots of torque though... top end hp does not matter with turbos and these sedans anyway... plus it will be cheaper to buy too.

Camry V6 did not have D4S, so quite likely new 2.0t will be superior in most ways.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

lexus infotainment is pretty bad. The Ford Sync in my GT is better, and its just going to get even better in 2016 with Sync 3. Hopefully the Lexus update has big changes. Or if they leave 14-15 IS/RC/GS high and dry thats going to suck

pman6

lexus infotainment feels like it runs a 5mhz cpu built in 1980.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

It's very embarrassing how 'laggy' generation 8 navigation is. Let's see what happens with the 2016 RX and Gen 8.5

ST430

This doesnt make a lot of sense presently: 2grfe makes 268hp on regular gas. 8AR-FTS makes 240hp on premium gas.

Must be a new engine line otherwise, why arent they making more hp on Lexus now?

pman6

right? the iphone 1 even runs faster

situman

Yes you may not need top end power, but for the camry's purpose, there's no need for all that torque anyways. Its not pulling or hauling and being front wheel drive, it will have handling issues. Besides, when your competitors are routinely pumping out over 270hp, it will become a marketing nightmare. If they are indeed thinking about upsizing their non-turbo 4's but add DS4 and Atkinson system, the power gap would be too narrow.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

no kidding, i can't understand how this could remotely pass their standard to be put in the cars. it's absolutely embarrassing.

imagine getting into the car and not able to go into ANY of the menus for 30 seconds.

Nextourer

Funny how a few years ago, Honda went with a V6 for its second generation RDX because the 2.0 litre turbo in the first gen saw no fuel economy gains (there weren't any. A Murano V6 got better fuel economy) and the V6 was smoother. Now everyone's going in the opposite direction, replacing the 3.0-3.6 litre V6s with 2.0 litre turbos.

The only one in recent memory that I've driven is the CLA250. I thought the 2.0 litre turbo was fine and between the turbo spooling up and the electronic throttle, I didn't notice any lag worth mentioning when I gunned it from rest. The said can't be said of the 1.4 litre in the Cruze which had lag (either turbo or throttle cause I had time to actually mention it to the person sitting next to me in the front seat that my foot was to the floor and the car wasn't responding). That said, the turbo 4 in the Regal I tested on the same day was quite good and responsive. Weird.


I just hope they hit their mpg numbers. So far, all I've heard from 2nd hand reports are that the owners of new turbocharged vehicles aren't getting the numbers they're expecting (and one first hand report of a colleague who owns a 1.6 litre EcoBoost Escape).

spwolf

200hp D4S version will be nice for sure... 2.0t will still have massivly more torque at below and this is important because when you drive a non-sport vehicle, you dont want to have to gun it to 6000 RPM to get the power... in 2.0t, you have maximum torque at 1650rpm already and massive amounts of it at below that... so at "smooth" speeds, you have massive torque and difference is feel is huge. This is what non-d4s versions of GR did not have, you had to gun them to be fast. Plus it is cheaper too.

Now, 2GR-FSE with Atkinson like what RX is getting, to me, thats superior powertrain to 2.0t but at the same time, it is also a lot more expensive too. Differences wont be that much in power, because torque down below and almost nobody driving RX between 4000 and 6000 rpm, but in initial response which will be superior in non-FI vehicle always. I think Camry buyer might appreciate $1k cheaper 2.0t over existing V6 plus better mpg.