Unsober1

Since this is a global forum, and I beleive some of you guys may have them. What models do toyota motor corp make in diesel? And does anyone know why the United states don't have them? I would say the obvious is because of some EPA reason. But I don't by that

Toys4RJill

The EPA is the reason. It simply is too costly to effectively build a diesel engine to pass EPA regulations while keeping the MSRP down. A hybrid Camry is cheaper to build than a diesel Camry so the hybrid Camry becomes so much more profitable.

Look up the cost of a diesel Jetta vs a high end spec Toyota Corolla. It simply is way too much money.

Fromthesha

It's because Toyota's business model is built on volume. America doesn't buy diesels (or vw would be killing it...and they aren't) and the previous poster is correct the cost to volume calculation doesn't make sense, and there are epa implications that don't come with a hydrogen platform, which is where they are putting their eggs.

mmarshall

That's true to some extent, but it is also true that an auto manufacturer cannot sell what it does not produce. One reason Americans don't buy diesels is that, except for a few German manufacturers and their BlueTec and TDI diesels, most manufacturers simply don't offer them here. Another reason is that, outside of truck stops, one sometimes has to do a little hunting to find a station with diesel fuel. A third reason is that, once you DO find a station that sells diesel fuel, its price has risen to the point where, in many areas, it costs more than premium 93-octane gas....that's because of the low-sulfur requirement that most modern diesels need. A (possible) fourth reason is that many new diesels (small VW TDIs are an exception) require periodic urea-solution refills to help the catalyst clean up the exhaust. The cost of those refills is sometimes included in free factory-maintenance, but not always.

Levi68

Because even in other markets, such as Europe TMC does not have any diesels except for the off-road cars and other have BMW diesel engines in them.

Toys4RJill

This is exaclty it. Toyota does have diesels all over the world except in North America. (Not sure about Mexico). A diesel Cruze starts at $26,485 which is $10K more than starting price of a base model and the Cruze diesel gets 150 HP. Diesel being costlier in the US vs Gas being more in the UK is the driving forces.

Unsober1

So then what about a work truck. Chevy, ford, dodge. Those guys have a good return on selling $50k plus vehicles to the United states market. Why don't we see a diesel Tundra ?

Toys4RJill

There is a business case in the US for HD trucks. Toyota Tundra does not sell enough to make it worth it.

chromedome

It's telling that Toyota and Lexus don't offer diesels in their home market because of emissions reasons, preferring to focus on hybrids instead. Diesel cars are very popular in Europe but particulate emissions are forcing major cities to consider limiting future sales of diesels. Maybe Europe's 30-year love affair with diesel is about to end.

I've driven many diesel cars and trucks and I'm currently a hybrid driver. I appreciate the treehugger aspect of sourcing diesel from recycled plant oils and using biodiesel, but I know those sources will never become mainstream. A hybrid has more torque than a diesel and runs a lot cleaner without needing urea catalysts. Diesel has the edge on tank range but a hybrid comes close. I can see a future for diesels in trucks where torque is king whereas cars will switch to hybrid or fully electric power.

mmarshall

Although this gets away from the cars themselves and more into the realm of politics, I think that is where much of the problem comes from...too much emphasis on emissions. And many people (sometimes even legislators) forget that, especially at coal-fired electric power-plants, the coal and coke burned to produce that electricity produces smoke and emissions of its own, though stack "scrubbers" help somewhat. And, at nuclear power plants, one does not have to deal with smoke, but nuclear waste and the possibility of a nuclear accident. So the electric power for automobiles isn't "free" of emissions by any means. Only in hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles does one really approach true zero emissions.

geko29

I have yet to find an area where fewer than one in three gas stations sells diesel. Often it's better than half. I have to drive past 8 stations that sell diesel (out of 12 total) on my 23-mile commute.

This does happen when gasoline is at seasonal lows. But diesel prices are more stable (at least in my area), with a swing of 50 cents or so, while premium swings within a range of two dollars or more. So sometimes it's a buck cheaper, sometimes it's 40 cents more expensive.

2.5 gallon jugs of urea are $15 at every autozone in the country, which works out to nine cents per gallon of fuel burned (and it can be had cheaper). 3 of those will get you through 500 gallons of fuel, which works out to around $45 for every 20,000 miles.

chromedome

Coal and gas-fired power plants have scrubbers; diesel vehicles don't. Diesels may be competitive with petrol engines on CO2 but they have much higher NOx and particulate emissions. That stuff is very localized and ends up hanging over cities as smog.

Electric vehicles are another messy argument I'd say they have the opportunity to be very clean *if* they use electricity from renewable sources. That's still a big plus because petrol and diesel engines will always pollute even if you could magically come up with petrol from algae and diesel from crops.

nipponbird

There can only be one reason why Diesels are not offered in the US by Toyota: They consider it not a profitable option.
Your question what they do offer in other markets:
http://www.toyota.co.za/ranges/all

South Africa ties in with right hand drive markets - read ex-British territories- so most what we have here from Toyota will be in Thailand, Australia, Malta etc.

Diesels are here the rage. Toyota however, doesn't go for very exciting Diesels, well that is a sort of corporate culture, I mean the somewhat dowdy character - they are not Alfa Romeo.

Lexus don't offer Diesels here, as I understand they did offer Diesels in Europe at one stage, but those were ripped straight out of some Toyota models.

Fromthesha

What do you mean "true to some extent"? It is the answer. The question isn't "why isn't America sold on diesels?" But why Toyota doesn't produce them. You can make chicken and egg argument (because they don't produce them) all you want. Fact is, they have more scientists and engineers on their payroll than you or I do, and they have deemed is risky from a profit situation.

mmarshall

Some places that's true, but diesel fuel, in general, is still harder to find than gas.


OK, it may be cheaper, but is it factory-approved fluid, and is it adequate for the job? One can also buy cheap motor-oil in those stores that doesn't meet factory or SAE standards, or cheap cut-rate gasoline brands that don't have the necessary detergent additives in them to keep engines and fuel-systems clean.