PhantomV

Performance for them, i would have to agree, is mid-sport range. Granted this car will probably handle really well just like the GS350, the Cadillac CTS-V will punish this along with the other AMG/M series. why make a "performance" car that can't compete with its rivals? but with its rivals sub-super car siblings? come on Lexus, at least update the motor. When they said " but the average person doesn’t really know exactly how much 500-horsepower really is, especially to live with day-to-day." it confused me because the "average" person is not the one buying these types of cars it's for those who want all they can get out of their cars and then some. if they keep this is the for average person mentality they'll never be any competition for the other performance brands.

situman

Hmmm I think I said can't. Yes a sales pitch is required but reality will set in once reviews come out. It will be an average performance car when compared to its competitors if the RCF is anything to go by.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yes i know (which is also very unfortunate). i am just saying from the car point of view, the cls is too much of a coupe type car. just like how i would say a 550i would makes more sense than a 650gc

DrRick

because in their convoluted thinking...they dont have 'rivals'.

Vladi

I know. That's why I said sales pitch cause that video is just an excuse why they didn't match the competitors so they had to come up with something.

pman6

I'm sure toyota is capable of putting in twin turbo and boosting this to the moon.

I'm just not sure why they're holding back. I thought excess was the name of the game.

They have a point about the "fun to drive" priority though.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

As lame an excuse as this is, these FI mills are probably just not ready

rxonmymind

That's reflextive of the arrogance they have assuming the "teacher" know's more and has nothing to learn from the public.
As long as they continue to lock down their engines and restrict anyone to prevent modifications they'll continue to lack feedback from the public. As long as they are out of the SEMA aftermarket game they'll be a triple A team. Mercedes, BMW go to those and learn. It's a two way street. People should at their own risk push the limits of their engines at various sanctioned races. We all learn something this way especially with medium such as the internet and have SO MANY smart people who also know how, what and where things went wrong or right. It's akin to testing in a petri dish or lab and letting it go in nature that's the public.
I think Lexus has become introverted and that can do a lot of damage to a company.
One way out as I brought up in another thread is to tap into their racing engines that have tens of millions in R&D to help propel Lexus to new heights and make them a real contender. That's their ace. Perhaps I'm wrong but to compete with the likes of Mercedes or BMW in the "sport" segment they can not continue on this path. They will always be in a solid 3rd or 4th place.

xioix

From what we know about the CTS-V, Lexus will get smoked by that in comparison tests

SNiiP3R

iTrader: (3)

Will it come with the hoverboard?

ISFPOWER

iTrader: (20)

GS-F will be a disappointment just like the RC-F as far as performance in acceleration, braking and other performance tests. Reliability is the only thing that will make the final decision for buyers if its priced near competitors but when buying brand new with warranty, i dont see how anyone would choose the lexus.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

it will sell to those who are already loyal to the brand.

situman

I do have a feeling these are stopgap products and stopgap engines. Lexus most likely didn't want to introduce brand new performance engines in the lower end of the segment. New high performance "F" brands with high power turbo engines will probably debut with the "LS-F" and "LC-F" and get filtered down to the lower end models. We will see true Lexus performance cars within the next 3-5yrs. I hope.

RNM GS3

^
You don't build an enthusiast following by making LSF.

You need to start with lower models like they did with ISF and work their way up.
The problem with Lexus is they dont really care about F models or performance in general. They only care about profits.

There is no reasonable explanation that Lexus has for not bringing out an new ISF.
There is no explanation why the RCF is a mishmash of 3 different chassis.
There is no explanation why after 8 years of development - the same exact V8 engine is being used with only a small 50hp power bump for the F cars.
There is no explanation for the GSF being down over 100hp compared to its rivals.....

Toyota / Lexus is just not into performance cars at all.
All you need is to look at new Supra which is basically completely developed by BMW.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

my opinions

but yes, to build enthusiast group you start with cars that makes an impact like IS and GS, not LS. i still hope lexus can turn this around, it's just a little hard for me to understand sometimes