Buick and the 24 HR Test Drive
07-30-15, 08:49 PM
#121
Lexus Test Driver
Actually, Cadilacs provide a refreshing alternative from today's sea of look-alike, jelly-bean, aero-stylng. I think pbm317 is correct that the main problem is pricing, not looks. They have also alienated a lot of their formerly loyal buyers by dropping the big traditional Cadillac sedans....which has cost them sales. The XTS replacement is poorly-done, and has not sold well at all.
Sometimes being the alternative only lends to a very small slice of the market. I don't think GM wants to be the odd man out with a small piece of the pie. If they want to rise up and make money, they have to enter into modern times by dumping the 70's eggcrate grilles, 60's taillights, chrome-trimmed everything, and overall flashiness. These are features most people shopping for BMW's and Mercedes cannot relate to.
Last edited by Fizzboy7; 07-30-15 at 08:54 PM.
07-31-15, 12:02 AM
#122
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
It can't all be the price. Most luxury cars, including Cadillacs are leased. And here in L.A., they lease for dirt cheap. Yet that hasn't seemed to make one bit of difference. Let's also be honest and factor in the massive discounts the factory throws in. A sticker on a Cadillac may be $55k, but it's not going to sell for anywhere near that once multiple incentives are factored in (more like $47k). Suddenly, Cadillacs are not so expensive. So since they are deeply discounted, drive well and get good reviews from everyone, there is only one other thing left.
Sometimes being the alternative only lends to a very small slice of the market. I don't think GM wants to be the odd man out with a small piece of the pie. If they want to rise up and make money, they have to enter into modern times by dumping the 70's eggcrate grilles, 60's taillights, chrome-trimmed everything, and overall flashiness. These are features most people shopping for BMW's and Mercedes cannot relate to.
Sometimes being the alternative only lends to a very small slice of the market. I don't think GM wants to be the odd man out with a small piece of the pie. If they want to rise up and make money, they have to enter into modern times by dumping the 70's eggcrate grilles, 60's taillights, chrome-trimmed everything, and overall flashiness. These are features most people shopping for BMW's and Mercedes cannot relate to.
In the case of the XTS, which is a superb car, they got the price point wrong. The XTS should be a ES350/h competitor.
07-31-15, 04:19 AM
#123
^ I'll argue that Cadillac's problem isn't the exterior styling, its the marketing and the interiors in their cars. The ATS interior has a horrible gauge package, the fit/finish is just meh, and it has that awful Cadillac CUE system that's clunky and hard to use.
From a tech/infotainment/screen standpoint, Cadillac's CUE system sucks. With Cadillac STILL suffering from the "only for old fogies" mindset of most buyers, they don't need another reason for people to cross them off their list.
From a tech/infotainment/screen standpoint, Cadillac's CUE system sucks. With Cadillac STILL suffering from the "only for old fogies" mindset of most buyers, they don't need another reason for people to cross them off their list.
07-31-15, 06:50 AM
#124
Lexus Fanatic
07-31-15, 07:58 AM
#125
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
^ I'll argue that Cadillac's problem isn't the exterior styling, its the marketing and the interiors in their cars. The ATS interior has a horrible gauge package, the fit/finish is just meh, and it has that awful Cadillac CUE system that's clunky and hard to use.
From a tech/infotainment/screen standpoint, Cadillac's CUE system sucks. With Cadillac STILL suffering from the "only for old fogies" mindset of most buyers, they don't need another reason for people to cross them off their list.
From a tech/infotainment/screen standpoint, Cadillac's CUE system sucks. With Cadillac STILL suffering from the "only for old fogies" mindset of most buyers, they don't need another reason for people to cross them off their list.
07-31-15, 08:27 AM
#126
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Let's check the facts. The XTS starts $44,660 while the CTS starts at $45K. The ES350 starts at $38K. Like I said, the XTS is priced a little too high. CTS competes with the G350 and 5 series.
07-31-15, 08:44 AM
#127
07-31-15, 08:45 AM
#128
I'll respect your opinion, but I never liked that car, and, sales or no sales, that is not going to change....not because of stubbornness or ignorance on my part, but because IMHO the car simply doesn't deserve a lot of respect. It doesn't drive or ride like the flagship the marketers are trying to present it as. Even Cadillac seems to be admitting it was a mistake, and getting ready to replace it with the CT-6, which, at least on the surface, seems much-better executed, though I'll save any further comments till I can examine it personally.
07-31-15, 10:56 AM
#129
Lexus Fanatic
OK...I'll agree with the CTS/GS/5-series comparison in terms of RWD/AWD. Also, the fact that all three are offered in high-performance V, F, and M versions.
07-31-15, 10:59 AM
#130
Lexus Fanatic
But how well a car sells often depends on potential buyers' opinons of it. People (usually) don't purchase or lease a vehicle they don't like, unless they are forced to by economic necessity. That's why Cadillac spent the time and money to develop the CT6...research showed the XTS, in the long run, was a mistake. Lincoln came to more or less the same conclusion with the MKS...which is why the new Continental concept was done.
Now, to be fair (since you earlier claimed I unfairly panned the XTS)...it DOES offer some improvements over the DTS....interior trim, more efficient (and hopefully more reliable) engine than the unreliable Northstars, better handling, and the AWD option for bad weather. But it does not, IMO, offer the same comfort....I wouldn't want to take it on a long trip.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-31-15 at 11:05 AM.
07-31-15, 11:04 AM
#131
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
this thread is about buick, not cadillac.
That's what I tried to say earlier.
07-31-15, 11:32 AM
#133
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
But how well a car sells often depends on potential buyers' opinons of it. People (usually) don't purchase or lease a vehicle they don't like, unless they are forced to by economic necessity. That's why Cadillac spent the time and money to develop the CT6...research showed the XTS, in the long run, was a mistake. Lincoln came to more or less the same conclusion with the MKS...which is why the new Continental concept was done.
Now, to be fair (since you earlier claimed I unfairly panned the XTS)...it DOES offer some improvements over the DTS....interior trim, more efficient (and hopefully more reliable) engine than the unreliable Northstars, better handling, and the AWD option for bad weather. But it does not, IMO, offer the same comfort....I wouldn't want to take it on a long trip.
Now, to be fair (since you earlier claimed I unfairly panned the XTS)...it DOES offer some improvements over the DTS....interior trim, more efficient (and hopefully more reliable) engine than the unreliable Northstars, better handling, and the AWD option for bad weather. But it does not, IMO, offer the same comfort....I wouldn't want to take it on a long trip.
As for the North star, there was nothing unreliable about it. In fact, it was probably one of the best ever GM engines that they have made.
08-01-15, 11:29 AM
#134
If not, go read on the Cadilac forums about the Northstar V8. Its an oil leaking and head gasket blowing pos. GM never could get the metallurgy or fasteners right to keep the head bolts from stripping out of the block.
They went through a couple different designs on the head bolts and never did fix the problem until they completely redesigned the Northstar for RWD in the STS and XLR. As for if your Northstar will blow a headgasket, some do it at 50k miles, some at 150k, and some people are lucky and never have that problem. I can't tell you the number of N* Cadillacs in my local yard that obviously were pampered, low mile cars with straight bodies and nice interiors. Nobody wants to spend the $4000 to fix a blown Northstar headgasket, since used you'd be lucky to get $4000 for a 90's N* Cadillac if you sold it.
08-02-15, 04:06 PM
#135
Lexus Fanatic
Lets put it this way. Theres a reason why Cadillac stopped using the name "Northstar" for their engines. Reliable...no.
FYI...we had one...a 1995 Cadillac STS.
FYI...we had one...a 1995 Cadillac STS.