Toys4RJill

I certainly do not agree with you.

SW17LS

You can disagree all you want, I'm the one who's actually a consumer of these cars lol. Brand is important, but a lot of these buyers who aren't legacy buyers are coming from mainstream brands, and while a nice perk, the brand isn't the most important factor. For me when I was shopping for the Jeep, I've had many luxury cars and brand wasn't that big a thing, I bought the best vehicle to me in the segment. I could have easily bought an RX350, and considered doing so but IMHO the Jeep is a better vehicle. People make the same decision every day with the Genesis, the Lacrosse, etc.

Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_...0.93present.29

Toys4RJill

Jeep is sort of like a Buick. Not luxury but somewhat premium.

SW17LS

I agree...but people are absolutely cross shopping Limited, Overland and Summit model Grand Cherokees with luxury branded cars. All you have to do is post on the Jeep forums like I did when we had ours and look at what vehicles people are coming from, comparing with and what they are going to. Lots of discussion of the RX, X5, ML, Land Rover LR4, Range Rover Sport, GX, Cayenne. Lots of members came from foreign luxury sedans and the Jeep was their move from a sedan to an SUV.

mmarshall

Jeeps runs the whole range from clear entry-level (Renegade, Compass) to premium (Grand Cherokee). Upper-level Grand Cherokees, IMO, are impressive enough to be in the Tier 2 range..........but not the brand as a whole.

mmarshall

Exactly. One cannot disagree with sales.

In this case, sales back it up. 40-60K LaCrosses are sold each year in the U.S....not to mention even larger numbers in Buick-crazy China. And, although my own personal experience is not necessarily that of the nation as a whole, almost every one I know of (in the U.S., of course) who owns or leases a LaCrosse also looked at an ES.....and vice-versa.

Yes. They were direct Buick competitors when they were in existence, and Buick picked up a number of their customers when they folded. So did Chrysler, to an extent (not Dodge).

Toys4RJill

Mainly irrelevant. The Jeep brand does not hold up to Land Rover, Mercedes Benz, Porsche etc etc.


Off-road, sure, Jeep, 4Runner with KDSS, G-wagon, and Hummer H2 could be discussed.

SW17LS

LOL, its not irrelevant...what matters is what consumers are buying, and consumers are cross shopping the Jeep in higher trims with luxury brands, and consumers are buying the Jeep over vehicles from those brands. The brand may not, but the vehicle does. The proof is in the sales and the demographics buying the vehicles. Again...I bought two...I could buy any SUV for sale at any price and I chose the Jeep after cross shopping it with vehicles from all those brands.

Plenty of people do not just buy *only* the brand. If you have two luxurious $50,000 SUVs of similar size and capacity...people are going to cross shop them unless they're just married to a specific brand.

Again...I'm not telling you what "could" be discussed, I'm telling you what IS discussed. You haven't shopped for or bought anything in the segment, you've never posted on the forums, nor are you a luxury or SUV consumer at all so I'm not sure from what authority or experience you're speaking from.

Ditto. When I bought my ES350 in 2010 I looked at the Lacrosse, as well as the Genesis. Looked at the Genesis again when I got the GS, and again before I upgraded to the LS.

Brand was a big part of what kept me out of the Lacrosse or Genesis each time, but the vehicles were certainly driven and considered.

Toys4RJill

I "Highly" doubt the Jeep brand is being cross shopped with Porsche, MB, Land Rover. You might of bought one but branding is a lot more prevelant in most vehicle purchase than you think. Not sure what your claim that you can buy any branded SUV has to do with anything, but enjoy your Jeep. I don't think it belongs in the same category as Lexus, Porsche, Land Rover etc. A Toyota 4Runner makes the perfect competitor for the Jeep brand. It's too bad the FJ is gone and I'm not sure of the XTerra is still around but that vehicle lined up well with the Jeep brand.

SW17LS

LOL, look on the forums! People discuss cross shopping it in upper trims with those brands all the time.

Seeing that you've never shopped for or had any discussions with people shopping for a Jeep...you really have no idea what you're talking about.

You've obviously never been in or driven a higher trim level Grand Cherokee lol. The 4Runner is not nearly as high quality or as upscale, and certainly not the FJ or the Xterra.

I think its pretty clear I've driven and owned a lot of high end vehicles, and that I know a quality vehicle when I see one/have one. The fact that I selected a Grand Cherokee over the many other options available to me should say a lot. I would say its as nice a vehicle as an ML, a MUCH nicer/higher quality vehicle than the current RX, GX or the Land Rover LR4, not quite as nice as an X5 or a Cayenne.

To bring it back to Buick, I also would argue that the Lacrosse in its current refresh is as nice...or perhaps nicer and higher quality than an Avalon or a pre refresh ES. The Hyundai Genesis absolutely blows the Avalon and ES away.

You put too much emphasis on brand. Not saying not everyone cares about brand, I'm saying there are people buying these vehicles that could have bought vehicles from luxury brands.

No longer own the Jeep, so its someone else's to enjoy now.

Toys4RJill

Usually those who can afford the high end nameplates just buy the higher end brands, they don't go around telling people they can afford any brand but yet drive a lower brand.

SW17LS

This highlights the problem with your thinking. You assume everybody buys the maximum they can afford, you'd be surprised how many millionaires are driving around in old Toyotas and Hyundais...and Buicks and Jeeps. In reality, people who have wealth and are comfortable with money don't look to try and impress people with the nameplate of the vehicle they drive.

I do business with a lot of very wealthy people, and by the nature of what I do I get to see their homes, cars, etc. You'd be surprised how unusual it is to find a brand new $70k+ luxury vehicle in the garage of people that *really* have money. When you get to people who are "income rich" sure. You don't know the area here, but in Bethesda where I grew up its very wealthy but a lot of the wealth is earned wealth, Drs, lawyers, business executives, etc, you find a new leased BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Audi in every garage. You go out to Potomac where the real money is...you start to find their luxury cars are 10 years old, or you see more ordinary cars.

I'm not bragging when I say I could have bought any SUV thats out there, thats just a fact and a great many of the members on this forum could do the same. Its a Lexus forum for petes sake. I selected the Grand Cherokee because I felt it was the best vehicle and the best value for the money. I could have bought a Lexus or a Mercedes or a BMW or whatever, a few of those cars for exactly the same money and I didn't.

LexBob2

I disagree. I know many people who can afford much more expensive vehicles than the ones they drive. In all of these cases cars/brands are not that important to them. They just choose to spend their money on other things. Or just keep it in their pocket..

Toys4RJill

And I get what you are saying and no doubt that is true. But usually, most people will not HAVE to tell you that they bought a lower level brand when they could of in fact bought more. Most working class people buy what they can afford, most people do not have the means for +$50K cars. This is why I Highly doubt Jeep/G-class cross shopping is as prevalent as the other member might think.

SW17LS

The richest clients I've ever had lived in a very modest home in a middle class suburb, nothing flashy or ostentatious. He has an old Ford pickup, and they decided to splurge and bought a Lexus ES hybrid...their first ever luxury car.

They could buy several Bugatti Veyrons for cash...like bank account cash.

I did not tell you that to justify why I bought a Jeep, I told you that to illustrate my point...that I did not select the Jeep because it was the "nicest vehicle I could afford". True, most people do not have the means to buy a $50k+ plus car. BUT...a highly trimmed Grand Cherokee is a $50-70k vehicle. A loaded Lacrosse is $45k. A Chevy Tahoe can be $70k. A loaded Genesis is $55k. People are selecting these vehicles who DO have the ability to buy a luxury branded vehicle.