LexBob2

The ES and Avalon actually sell about the same. YTD thru June = 28,718 Avalons and 29,041 ES.

In 2014 72,508 ES and 67,183 Avalons.

mmarshall

Is that in the American market? Agreed....globally, the figures are indeed much closer.....and sometimes the Avalon has outsold the ES.

LexBob2

The sales are for the U.S. market.

SW17LS

The Lacrosse was designed specifically to compete with the ES. I remember reading when it came out that they actually reverse engineered it from the ES specifically.

Toys4RJill

I like Buick. In no way do I hate it. I am just realistic in that Buick as a brand is not on the same level as a BMW, Audi or MB. The starting prices are way to low and they all share platforms with Chevrolets.

The Avalon has ALWAYS been considered a Japanese Buick so as far as I'm concerned, the Lacrosse competes with the Avalon on all things considered. There is nothing to be ashamed of that Lacrosse is on the same level as Japanese Buick.

As for the Verano, is has the same starting price as my mid level Corolla, the top end Veranos max out before the IS starts its MSRP.
I would say that maybe the A3 could be compared to the Verano, but I would have to check the MSRPs.

mmarshall

Jill.......have you driven a new LaCrosse? Or a Verano? Or a Regal? Or any other new Buick? If not, with all due respect (and I'm trying to be courteous, even though we often disagree), you need to go sample some for yourself, if you are going to be comparing them against other nameplates. One cannot review vehicles strictly from a keyboard.

LexBob2

Both C&D and CR place the Avalon and Lacrosse in the same segment and the ES for example in a different one. It doesn't mean they aren't cross shopped though.

Toys4RJill

Buick truthfully does not have a true brand competitor, they are kind of out there on there own. Now, there is nothing wrong with that IMO. The difference between Buick and Acura or Toyota or Hyundai is that the former three have a few models in their line ups that cross over from being a mainstream brand into having some premium vehicles with in the brand. Buick is pretty much all premium.

Looking at all things considered, factoring in and weighing in on such variables as to what platforms, base price, features, brand recognition, and top spec price. My view is as follows.

Verano/ILX
Lacrosse/Avalon
Enclave/Highlander Limited

I would put the ES350 into the lower braket of the Cadillac XTS.

Nothing from Toyota or Lexus can even compare with the Lacrosse AWD, or XTS AWD as these models have AWD and are in a unique category to themselves.

I know Buick is known for its quiet tuning, but the Avalon has some quiet tuning of its own going on. Edmund's reported some interesting results

Avalon. 59.8 DB at 70mph
Lacrosse 60.5 DB at 70mph

Avalon was 2DB quieter at idle and 1 DB at full throttle.

tex2670

You have totally missed the mark on the Enclave comparison. There are a TON of Enclaves in my area, and people are not buying them instead of Toyota. They are buying them instead of an MDX, RX or other American or Japanese luxury make.

Toys4RJill

I considered the Enclave/RX350 sort of. The Enclave is three row SUV while the RX is a two row SUV. So naturally the RX should be compared to the Cadillac SRX IMO based on brand, design, size etc etc. The Cadillac nameplate is no doubt considered a luxury badge wheras the Buick is entry premium and not-luxury.

The Lincoln MKX, Lexus RX350, and Caddy SRX all seat 5 and compare very well.

The Buick could be compared more to the Lincoln MKT. I would put the Acura MDX as a solid Buick Enclave competitor.

SW17LS

I know multiple people who have purchased Enclaves over RXs specifically because they have three rows and are bigger. These people did not consider a Highlander....but they did look at the RX.

People don't only look at a specific segment when shopping. People consider 2 row and 3 row crossovers, minivans and crossovers, etc. The Enclave is certainly perceived as a premium/luxury SUV.

Toys4RJill

And like I have said numerous times, Buick is in a class that really has no real true competitor. If Mercury was still around Buick would have one. GMC is sort of in the same situation with the Acadia Denali that retails at a starting price of $47K. That puts in right in Mercedes Benz territory but it is clear that the brands dont really compare.

I don't have much respect for CR, but they see the Enclave as a competitor for the Ford Flex and the Toyota Highlander.

Buick Verano compares with the Mazda 3 and the Subaru Imprezza according to CR, but I notice they don't agree that the ILX is a true competitor, but MT does.

SW17LS

The brand is more like Mercury, or Oldsmobile would be if they were still around I agree, BUT just because the brands aren't 100% comparable doesn't mean specific models within them aren't. People definitely cross shop the Lacrosse and the ES, and the Enclave and the RX.

Toys4RJill

I can agree with you on that. So we can say that the Lacrosse direct Toyota competitor is that of the Toyota Avalon which is often referred to as a Japanese Buick. The Avalon is not a luxury car but is in fact a premium large sedan, the Lacrosse is also a large car from a non luxury but a premium brand. Both could be cross shopped with a Lexus ES350 or a high spec Camry, Accord and high spec Impala.

SW17LS

I would also put the ES as a direct competitor to the Lacrosse in upper trims. Like I said, the Lacrosse was designed with the ES square in its target.

Buick as a brand is more upscale than Toyota but not as upscale as Lexus.

Brands aren't as important to buyers looking in these entry segments as you think. The Hyundai Genesis is a direct competitor to the ES and the GS despite the fact that its not luxury branded. The Jeeps I had for instance, not luxury branded but I compared them to the RX, FX, Mercedes ML, X5, as do everybody else who buy a highly trimmed one.